hPower

One other thing, the size has nothing to do with the balance or harmonics. The ongoing debate of internet scientists is that the removal of a small rubber piece called a "harmonic dampner" will eventually result in catastrophic engine failure after some hundred thousand miles of use. If their claims are true then either the ZPI, NST, Unorthodox or any of the other similar pulleys will do the same thing to our motors.

Do a quick search on these forums and you will find many many people who have been running NST pulleys for a long time with no problems. And you will find ZERO people who have had problems thus far!

www.NonStopTuning.com

20tCDude05

It's kinda risky tho...

I'm very **** about this stuff, I've installed parts before and it messed the car up, but it wasn't an actual car, it was a R/C car and it could very well happen on a real car.

rhythmnsmoke

Sorry sir, but you are wrong.. He said that he was on a budget. Therefore, NST would NOT be the most budget friendly purchase for him.

If he went with NST, his purchases would have to consist of thus:

NST crank pulley (underdriven I might add, therefore the following purchases must be accompanied with it)

Belt
Alternator Pulley
Water Pump Pulley


Therefore NST vs. the Competition

NST
Underdriven Crank Pulley
Belt (Much needed purchase because the underdrive is smaller in diameter)
Alternator Pulley + Water Pump Pulley (Needed purchase, due to the fact the crank pulley is Underdriven therefore robbing power from the other operating components. If you wish to drop a couple of subswoofers in your car, then WITHOUT A DOUBT you will need to purchase these other two pulleys)


Competition
Lightweight Crank Pulley (ONLY purchase necessary due to being the same sizes as the stock pulley but a crap load lighter, and can be purchased in Anodized)

RacerZack

i'm not going to take any sides regarding which pulley to get (i have zpi on my tC and ur on my miata)... i will say that the people going on and on about how these pulleys will mess up the electrical system, damage the engine, cause impotence, incite riots, and bring about global armageddon... well they are both right and wrong, with an unhealthy dose of hysterics.

in a purely technical sense, looking at the overall possible lifespan of an engine, changing the pulleys COULD cause eventual failure which may or may not otherwise occur. and, if there was going to be a failure, the use of a lightened and/or underdrive pulley may cause the failure to happen sooner than it would without the pulley.

notice all the qualifiers in there?

no one has ever proven that a pulley caused an engine failure. the reason for this is simple: miles and time.

you see, all of these armchair-scientists who love to quote harmonic balances and weights and whatever are missing the fundimental requirement for proving this kind of theory: unbiased testing.

to have an unbiased test, you'd need two identical engines in an identical environment, such as a lab. then they would have to be given identical tests, one with the pulley in question and one with the oem pulley. imagine a scenario like those castrol commercials where the engines get their oil drained and they run until they all explode except for the castrol engine.

needless to say, no one has the time or money to waste on a test like this. in the real world, cars drive varying amount of miles with a varying degree of hard vs. easy driving and a varying degree of maintenance/care. no two experiences are really comparable.

so, all of the doom-and-gloom predictions are based on theory only. then these theories are backed up by anecdotal evidence of "i knew so-and-so with a 240sx and he put on an underdrive pulley and then he threw a rod, so the pulley was clearly at fault." which, of course, can't be proven since there is no way to know how well the blown engine was cared for or how it was driven.

on the flip side, there are people like me who have over 100,000 miles on an underdrive pulley (miata) and no issues whatsoever. on the tC, i opted for the zpi pulley only because i liked the fact that it was standard-size. i just liked that better since i didn't have any potential issues with electricity. but then i haven't really had any related to the underdrive pulley on the miata, either. it was just a choice, no better or worse than someone picking to go underdrive.

so, just consider all of this when you read the endless threads on pulleys. a lot of people like to be the "authority" on something and spout off facts and figures and do whatever they can to convince people that their perspective is "right." sometimes this can be a good thing, but a lot of times it's just one theory vs another, neither being provable or right. i would put more faith in the company's repitation for quality and other user's direct experience with the product than i would all of this "theory" discussion....

hPower

So very very very well put. Thank you sir for not being one of the many ricer-internet-racer-boys we see so often online

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

What are you talking about? The NST underdrive pulley DOES NOT ROB power from other components *LOL* it slows there rotational speed down which overall nets a power increase from not having to spin them up as fast. The underdrive pulley does NOT require the purchase of the alternator or waterpump pulley period. The NST underdrive is a WICKED add on when undergoing other modifications to the car.

NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.

Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.

I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..

RacerZack

i'm curious about the alternator pulley... is it only applicable for people with an underdrive crank pulley? it makes sense that if you do, you'd want to keep the alternator going at stock speed.

but what if you have a stock-size crank pulley -- is overdriving the alternator going to put out MORE juice? or is that a bad thing? until i read about the NST pulley set and saw how they are offered for sale (with the wp+alt as a separate item from the crank), i never even considered the idea of overdriving the alternator...

hPower

Overdrive alternator pulleys can be used with stock crank pulleys, people in the MR2 world have been doing it for like a decade now! Overdrive means to speed up, and if you speed up the alternator you will get a little bit more power from it all accross the powerband. Think of it like when you use a supercharger pulley to speed up the TRD supercharger and make more boost. Yes, there can theoretically be a point at which overdriving too much could result in problems, but lets give NST the benefit of the doubt on this one, they do this stuff for a living and part of their job includes the continued R&D they do with their project cars

Garage1217

iTrader: (5)

Yes it can be overdriven to help at lower rpm or idle without the ud pulley

Ryhian

Do you have a link to the dyno?

rhythmnsmoke

Aaaaheeemm....if you would have read my post without emotion, you would have saw where I said...."IF YOU WANT SUBWOOFERS, YOU NEED TO BUY OTHER PULLIES". I really wish someone would do a before and after dyno of the NST crank pulley. Then do a dyno of it with the other associated pullies. So, that we may compare the gains vs. the competition. The competition already is lighter than NST's, so now I would like to see a HP gains comparison. And maybe you should do a little more research on what "UNDERDRIVEN" means.

rhythmnsmoke

PM Ben (yamaha16bw), as it was his car that did a dyno before and after of the ZPI v2 pulley. I will see if I can find you his dyno sheet.

rhythmnsmoke

Aweee! Here you go:


Correction 11.6 whp and 18 ftlbs increase

Ryhian

Thanks

-Keith-

bah anything but zpi...

Ryhian

Those are some really good numbers. I already have an NST which I'll be installing hopefully this week. its ashame it takes so long to get the ZPI pullies.

rhythmnsmoke

bah anything but NST

rhythmnsmoke

They never stay in stock.

-Keith-

I say this cuz I have had nothing but problems with zpi in the past... you know about some of it.

hPower

And NST actually spends some of their profits into building more pulleys to make sure they can keep up with the incredibly high demand so that their customers don't have to wait 12 years to get a pulley!

I hate it when these threads turn into ZPI vs. NST wars, but I guess we all have to defend the side we love