I thought this was a ZPI Pulley, but, it's NOT?!
06-13-2006, 06:43 PM
#41
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by hPower
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Ryhian
Those are some really good numbers. I already have an NST which I'll be installing hopefully this week. its ashame it takes so long to get the ZPI pullies.
They never stay in stock.
I hate it when these threads turn into ZPI vs. NST wars, but I guess we all have to defend the side we love
It is inevitable that such would happen, as they are the only thriving compaines that have pulleys.
NST makes their own
ZPI has someone to produce them for them, as they are not a large corporation that has an in house facility/machines who's sole purpose is to pump out pullies.
06-13-2006, 06:47 PM
#42
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 2,114
I wrote this in another thread but it seems useful here just in case the pulley haters come in:
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment.
You may hear a little more noise with this pulley but it's not going to cause any engine damage.
If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. Mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few.
NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing.
Toyota put alot more money into the intake system then they had to, the main reason: to make it quiet.. That same exact reason they put more research/engineering into the crank pulley: to reduce noise.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment.
You may hear a little more noise with this pulley but it's not going to cause any engine damage.
If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. Mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few.
NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing.
Toyota put alot more money into the intake system then they had to, the main reason: to make it quiet.. That same exact reason they put more research/engineering into the crank pulley: to reduce noise.
06-13-2006, 06:50 PM
#43
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cape Coral, Florida
Posts: 2,114
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
They never stay in stock.
If you order one of their pullies now, expect to wait about a 1/4 of a year to get it.
BTW, they charge you within 2 hours of ordering it.
06-13-2006, 07:00 PM
#44
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by DouBLeJ16
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
They never stay in stock.
If you order one of their pullies now, expect to wait about a 1/4 of a year to get it.
BTW, they charge you within 2 hours of ordering it.
Not uncommon to be charged already for it. But there is always a option of returning it.
06-13-2006, 07:25 PM
#45
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
What are you talking about? The NST underdrive pulley DOES NOT ROB power from other components *LOL* it slows there rotational speed down which overall nets a power increase from not having to spin them up as fast. The underdrive pulley does NOT require the purchase of the alternator or waterpump pulley period. The NST underdrive is a WICKED add on when undergoing other modifications to the car.
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
Aaaaheeemm....if you would have read my post without emotion, you would have saw where I said...."IF YOU WANT SUBWOOFERS, YOU NEED TO BUY OTHER PULLIES". I really wish someone would do a before and after dyno of the NST crank pulley. Then do a dyno of it with the other associated pullies. So, that we may compare the gains vs. the competition. The competition already is lighter than NST's, so now I would like to see a HP gains comparison. And maybe you should do a little more research on what "UNDERDRIVEN" means.
I would be more than happy to test out a ZPI pulley vs an NST underdrive pulley ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. You think just weight savings alone nets hp gaines over slowing down the rotational speed of all components connected which takes less physical rotational energy from the engine? Also I would love to to a full blown test of a ZPI pulley vs an nst underdrive pulley including weight, diameter etc and of course many dyno runs done by a 3rd party. I will bet cash right now NST stomps on the zpi pulley. It is simple physics. The zpi has more rotational mass at the outer edge because it is overall a larger diameter.
I am not emotional at all over this, Just cannot figure out were you learned about how pulleys work? All you can say is ZPI is a tad lighter. I chose to carry NST because I know how pulleys work and the physics behind them. If someone made a better pulley for the tc, I would have been in contact with them or would have simply had my own machined because only top notch gear is acceptable in my eyes.
You think a 15" flywheel that weighs 10lbs 'ZPI EXAMPLE" on the outside edge will net a better gain than a 12" flywheel with 10.5lbs "NST EXAMPLE" on the outer edge? That is basically what you are saying when you are trying to compare the two and saying ZPI is better or will net better gains. And along that same fact, the NST pulley also is an underdrive pulley! That alone is a known FACT to produce more hp than just shaving some weight off a stock diameter pulley alone!
Again if ZPI can get a pulley in, I will be happy to even pay a 3rd party to do independant testing on a tc that is not even mine, it can be anyones car! Physics do not lie man.
And another fact is ZPI is charging people $145.99 for a non hard anodized stock diameter pulley! "hard anodizing $20 extra" when a known power producing design like the nst which is hard anodized can be had for $99? And even though you are a zpi guy, you can honestly say that is the right choice in pulleys being a basically bling bling lightweight stock pulley??? Man I just do not understand your logic on this other than you love zpi which is all fine and dandy.
06-13-2006, 07:35 PM
#46
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
What are you talking about? The NST underdrive pulley DOES NOT ROB power from other components *LOL* it slows there rotational speed down which overall nets a power increase from not having to spin them up as fast. The underdrive pulley does NOT require the purchase of the alternator or waterpump pulley period. The NST underdrive is a WICKED add on when undergoing other modifications to the car.
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
Aaaaheeemm....if you would have read my post without emotion, you would have saw where I said...."IF YOU WANT SUBWOOFERS, YOU NEED TO BUY OTHER PULLIES". I really wish someone would do a before and after dyno of the NST crank pulley. Then do a dyno of it with the other associated pullies. So, that we may compare the gains vs. the competition. The competition already is lighter than NST's, so now I would like to see a HP gains comparison. And maybe you should do a little more research on what "UNDERDRIVEN" means.
I would be more than happy to test out a ZPI pulley vs an NST underdrive pulley ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. You think just weight savings alone nets hp gaines over slowing down the rotational speed of all components connected which takes less physical rotational energy from the engine? Also I would love to to a full blown test of a ZPI pulley vs an nst underdrive pulley including weight, diameter etc and of course many dyno runs done by a 3rd party. I will bet cash right now NST stomps on the zpi pulley. It is simple physics. The zpi has more rotational mass at the outer edge because it is overall a larger diameter.
I am not emotional at all over this, Just cannot figure out were you learned about how pulleys work? All you can say is ZPI is a tad lighter. I chose to carry NST because I know how pulleys work and the physics behind them. If someone made a better pulley for the tc, I would have been in contact with them or would have simply had my own machined because only top notch gear is acceptable in my eyes.
You think a 15" flywheel that weighs 10lbs 'ZPI EXAMPLE" on the outside edge will net a better gain than a 12" flywheel with 10.5lbs "NST EXAMPLE" on the outer edge? That is basically what you are saying when you are trying to compare the two and saying ZPI is better or will net better gains. And along that same fact, the NST pulley also is an underdrive pulley! That alone is a known FACT to produce more hp than just shaving some weight off a stock diameter pulley alone!
Again if ZPI can get a pulley in, I will be happy to even pay a 3rd party to do independant testing on a tc that is not even mine, it can be anyones car! Physics do not lie man.
And another fact is ZPI is charging people $145.99 for a non hard anodized stock diameter pulley! "hard anodizing $20 extra" when a known power producing design like the nst which is hard anodized can be had for $99? And even though you are a zpi guy, you can honestly say that is the right choice in pulleys being a basically bling bling lightweight stock pulley??? Man I just do not understand your logic on this other than you love zpi which is all fine and dandy.
Just incase you didn't know, Someone already weighed the NST pulley vs. the ZPI dude. A 3 paragraph paper is not needed. You either want to pay all the money for NST, or buy one pulley from ZPI, plain and simple. I'm sorry dude, but the difference in weight was not that small. Last time I checked, $150 was for Anodized. I don't understand your logic. You buy the NST pulley, you CAN'T RUN A SYSTEM, Unless you get their other pulley. How many people on here you know of, Don't run at least one subwoofer in their car?
Sorry dude, but until someone can do a before and after dyno run on of just the NST crank pulley ON A TC, then all you are spitting to me is nothing but theoretics....
Where were you when the independent 3rd party people tested their ZPI pullies?
Facts:
1) NST weighs more
2) ZPI's has been dynoed
3) For the tC's platform, NST's sales are driven from company name, and customer service. No one has said, buy NST because it gained X amount of HP MORE than the competition. No, they say get NST because you don't have to wait for it, or that their customer service is top notch. Don't confuse PERFORMANCE with Company Image.
Until you show me hard evidence, and facts, again, you are just blowing smoke. I don't give a crap about what you read in a book. Reading and Experiencing are two totally different things.
Man, gotta love those Theoritical people. No shread of evidence such as a dyno run, and yet you can claim it makes more power. When you show me some evidence, then I will give credit where credit is due.
06-13-2006, 08:14 PM
#47
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 681
I just do not buy that ZPI pulley dyno. I have NEVER seen any pulley made by any company make more than 10WHP on a small 4 banger, PERIOD. And I have been into 4 banger tuning and racing for over a decade now! But that is another can of worms.
OK, so as far as engineering is concerned, this is what I have learned recently. Most of this information comes from the conversations I have had with Mike from www.NonStopTuning.com on AIM, his screen name is NSTonAIM and he is great about giving out information. I suggest you talk to him if you have questions. Strap yourself in because this is going to be a long reply!
Basically, there are several benefits to be had with aftermarket pulleys.
1. They are much lighter than stock. Less weight means more throttle responce. You slap on a pulley (or set of pulleys) that is lighter than stock and you will see your car revving up faster and easier. Both NST and ZPI pulleys are lighter than stock and their benefits can easilly be seen on the butt dyno.
2. Underdriving. Some crank pulleys underdrive accessories. Underdrive means to slow down. An underdrive crank pulley will send less power to the accessories, and thus free up some extra horsepower that can be sent to the wheels instead. This is how you see extra WHP on a dyno. Underdrive is truely the way to go if you want more power at the wheels. NST crank pulleys underdrive, ZPI crank pulleys do not.
A properly designed underdrive crank pulley will slow down accessories to a point where they will still function properly and not loose any of their power. NST spends a lot of time and money on R&D so lets give them credit, they are not going to sell you a product that will make you not want to come back to them.
3. Overdrive. Very few companies right now, NST being one of them, are building overdrive pulleys like the ones you see for our alternators. Overdrive mans to speed up. By speeding up the alternator, an NST pulley will bring the alternator up to charge faster than a stock pulley would. This means the alternator will work more efficiently and will charge easier. People with stereo systems and extra lighting mods will love a pulley like this.
So that is the engineering disscussion. If you have more questions ask me and I will help you if I can. Or go to the source and ask for youself, www.NonStopTuning.com
I'm pretty sure most people are sick of this back and forth crap and this thread will probably get locked up pretty soon. Buy what you like, it is your car, but try to understand and be a smart consumer and don't just follow mirrors and smoke!!!
OK, so as far as engineering is concerned, this is what I have learned recently. Most of this information comes from the conversations I have had with Mike from www.NonStopTuning.com on AIM, his screen name is NSTonAIM and he is great about giving out information. I suggest you talk to him if you have questions. Strap yourself in because this is going to be a long reply!
Basically, there are several benefits to be had with aftermarket pulleys.
1. They are much lighter than stock. Less weight means more throttle responce. You slap on a pulley (or set of pulleys) that is lighter than stock and you will see your car revving up faster and easier. Both NST and ZPI pulleys are lighter than stock and their benefits can easilly be seen on the butt dyno.
2. Underdriving. Some crank pulleys underdrive accessories. Underdrive means to slow down. An underdrive crank pulley will send less power to the accessories, and thus free up some extra horsepower that can be sent to the wheels instead. This is how you see extra WHP on a dyno. Underdrive is truely the way to go if you want more power at the wheels. NST crank pulleys underdrive, ZPI crank pulleys do not.
A properly designed underdrive crank pulley will slow down accessories to a point where they will still function properly and not loose any of their power. NST spends a lot of time and money on R&D so lets give them credit, they are not going to sell you a product that will make you not want to come back to them.
3. Overdrive. Very few companies right now, NST being one of them, are building overdrive pulleys like the ones you see for our alternators. Overdrive mans to speed up. By speeding up the alternator, an NST pulley will bring the alternator up to charge faster than a stock pulley would. This means the alternator will work more efficiently and will charge easier. People with stereo systems and extra lighting mods will love a pulley like this.
So that is the engineering disscussion. If you have more questions ask me and I will help you if I can. Or go to the source and ask for youself, www.NonStopTuning.com
I'm pretty sure most people are sick of this back and forth crap and this thread will probably get locked up pretty soon. Buy what you like, it is your car, but try to understand and be a smart consumer and don't just follow mirrors and smoke!!!
06-13-2006, 09:44 PM
#48
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by hPower
I just do not buy that ZPI pulley dyno. I have NEVER seen any pulley made by any company make more than 10WHP on a small 4 banger, PERIOD. And I have been into 4 banger tuning and racing for over a decade now! But that is another can of worms.
OK, so as far as engineering is concerned, this is what I have learned recently. Most of this information comes from the conversations I have had with Mike from www.NonStopTuning.com on AIM, his screen name is NSTonAIM and he is great about giving out information. I suggest you talk to him if you have questions. Strap yourself in because this is going to be a long reply!
Basically, there are several benefits to be had with aftermarket pulleys.
1. They are much lighter than stock. Less weight means more throttle responce. You slap on a pulley (or set of pulleys) that is lighter than stock and you will see your car revving up faster and easier. Both NST and ZPI pulleys are lighter than stock and their benefits can easilly be seen on the butt dyno.
2. Underdriving. Some crank pulleys underdrive accessories. Underdrive means to slow down. An underdrive crank pulley will send less power to the accessories, and thus free up some extra horsepower that can be sent to the wheels instead. This is how you see extra WHP on a dyno. Underdrive is truely the way to go if you want more power at the wheels. NST crank pulleys underdrive, ZPI crank pulleys do not.
A properly designed underdrive crank pulley will slow down accessories to a point where they will still function properly and not loose any of their power. NST spends a lot of time and money on R&D so lets give them credit, they are not going to sell you a product that will make you not want to come back to them.
3. Overdrive. Very few companies right now, NST being one of them, are building overdrive pulleys like the ones you see for our alternators. Overdrive mans to speed up. By speeding up the alternator, an NST pulley will bring the alternator up to charge faster than a stock pulley would. This means the alternator will work more efficiently and will charge easier. People with stereo systems and extra lighting mods will love a pulley like this.
So that is the engineering disscussion. If you have more questions ask me and I will help you if I can. Or go to the source and ask for youself, www.NonStopTuning.com
I'm pretty sure most people are sick of this back and forth crap and this thread will probably get locked up pretty soon. Buy what you like, it is your car, but try to understand and be a smart consumer and don't just follow mirrors and smoke!!!
OK, so as far as engineering is concerned, this is what I have learned recently. Most of this information comes from the conversations I have had with Mike from www.NonStopTuning.com on AIM, his screen name is NSTonAIM and he is great about giving out information. I suggest you talk to him if you have questions. Strap yourself in because this is going to be a long reply!
Basically, there are several benefits to be had with aftermarket pulleys.
1. They are much lighter than stock. Less weight means more throttle responce. You slap on a pulley (or set of pulleys) that is lighter than stock and you will see your car revving up faster and easier. Both NST and ZPI pulleys are lighter than stock and their benefits can easilly be seen on the butt dyno.
2. Underdriving. Some crank pulleys underdrive accessories. Underdrive means to slow down. An underdrive crank pulley will send less power to the accessories, and thus free up some extra horsepower that can be sent to the wheels instead. This is how you see extra WHP on a dyno. Underdrive is truely the way to go if you want more power at the wheels. NST crank pulleys underdrive, ZPI crank pulleys do not.
A properly designed underdrive crank pulley will slow down accessories to a point where they will still function properly and not loose any of their power. NST spends a lot of time and money on R&D so lets give them credit, they are not going to sell you a product that will make you not want to come back to them.
3. Overdrive. Very few companies right now, NST being one of them, are building overdrive pulleys like the ones you see for our alternators. Overdrive mans to speed up. By speeding up the alternator, an NST pulley will bring the alternator up to charge faster than a stock pulley would. This means the alternator will work more efficiently and will charge easier. People with stereo systems and extra lighting mods will love a pulley like this.
So that is the engineering disscussion. If you have more questions ask me and I will help you if I can. Or go to the source and ask for youself, www.NonStopTuning.com
I'm pretty sure most people are sick of this back and forth crap and this thread will probably get locked up pretty soon. Buy what you like, it is your car, but try to understand and be a smart consumer and don't just follow mirrors and smoke!!!
Are you SERIOUS! Now all of a sudden I produce Doctored Dyno sheets.... FYI, the dyno was done at the Scion ShootOut in front of about 50 witnesses. Everyone Dynoed on the same dyno that day....
I guess I magically altered it right after the dyno operator printed it off for Ben (yamaha16bw)If Underdriven pullies slow down other accessories, and it's total ok to run the crank pulley only, then why does everyone buy the other associated pullies? According to you, I should be able to buy the smaller underdriven pulley and a new belt ONLY, and still should be ok with running my 12inch subwoofer in the trunk right? As the more commercial friendly response you can give would be..."It's not recommended".
PS...Underdriven pulley is not the only technological design that produces whp seen on the dyno dude....Stop playing it out to be that way..
06-13-2006, 09:53 PM
#49
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
What are you talking about? The NST underdrive pulley DOES NOT ROB power from other components *LOL* it slows there rotational speed down which overall nets a power increase from not having to spin them up as fast. The underdrive pulley does NOT require the purchase of the alternator or waterpump pulley period. The NST underdrive is a WICKED add on when undergoing other modifications to the car.
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
Aaaaheeemm....if you would have read my post without emotion, you would have saw where I said...."IF YOU WANT SUBWOOFERS, YOU NEED TO BUY OTHER PULLIES". I really wish someone would do a before and after dyno of the NST crank pulley. Then do a dyno of it with the other associated pullies. So, that we may compare the gains vs. the competition. The competition already is lighter than NST's, so now I would like to see a HP gains comparison. And maybe you should do a little more research on what "UNDERDRIVEN" means.
I would be more than happy to test out a ZPI pulley vs an NST underdrive pulley ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. You think just weight savings alone nets hp gaines over slowing down the rotational speed of all components connected which takes less physical rotational energy from the engine? Also I would love to to a full blown test of a ZPI pulley vs an nst underdrive pulley including weight, diameter etc and of course many dyno runs done by a 3rd party. I will bet cash right now NST stomps on the zpi pulley. It is simple physics. The zpi has more rotational mass at the outer edge because it is overall a larger diameter.
I am not emotional at all over this, Just cannot figure out were you learned about how pulleys work? All you can say is ZPI is a tad lighter. I chose to carry NST because I know how pulleys work and the physics behind them. If someone made a better pulley for the tc, I would have been in contact with them or would have simply had my own machined because only top notch gear is acceptable in my eyes.
You think a 15" flywheel that weighs 10lbs 'ZPI EXAMPLE" on the outside edge will net a better gain than a 12" flywheel with 10.5lbs "NST EXAMPLE" on the outer edge? That is basically what you are saying when you are trying to compare the two and saying ZPI is better or will net better gains. And along that same fact, the NST pulley also is an underdrive pulley! That alone is a known FACT to produce more hp than just shaving some weight off a stock diameter pulley alone!
Again if ZPI can get a pulley in, I will be happy to even pay a 3rd party to do independant testing on a tc that is not even mine, it can be anyones car! Physics do not lie man.
And another fact is ZPI is charging people $145.99 for a non hard anodized stock diameter pulley! "hard anodizing $20 extra" when a known power producing design like the nst which is hard anodized can be had for $99? And even though you are a zpi guy, you can honestly say that is the right choice in pulleys being a basically bling bling lightweight stock pulley??? Man I just do not understand your logic on this other than you love zpi which is all fine and dandy.
Just incase you didn't know, Someone already weighed the NST pulley vs. the ZPI dude. A 3 paragraph paper is not needed. You either want to pay all the money for NST, or buy one pulley from ZPI, plain and simple. I'm sorry dude, but the difference in weight was not that small. Last time I checked, $150 was for Anodized. I don't understand your logic. You buy the NST pulley, you CAN'T RUN A SYSTEM, Unless you get their other pulley. How many people on here you know of, Don't run at least one subwoofer in their car?
Sorry dude, but until someone can do a before and after dyno run on of just the NST crank pulley ON A TC, then all you are spitting to me is nothing but theoretics....
Where were you when the independent 3rd party people tested their ZPI pullies?
Facts:
1) NST weighs more
2) ZPI's has been dynoed
3) For the tC's platform, NST's sales are driven from company name, and customer service. No one has said, buy NST because it gained X amount of HP MORE than the competition. No, they say get NST because you don't have to wait for it, or that their customer service is top notch. Don't confuse PERFORMANCE with Company Image.
Until you show me hard evidence, and facts, again, you are just blowing smoke. I don't give a crap about what you read in a book. Reading and Experiencing are two totally different things.
Man, gotta love those Theoritical people. No shread of evidence such as a dyno run, and yet you can claim it makes more power. When you show me some evidence, then I will give credit where credit is due.
I cannot even comment on what you just wrote.... the level of love you have for zpi is just.... unsettleing. You are blinded by a product they do not even make. All you keep saying is that it is lighter which is not by any means the sole purpose of purchasing a pulley as a performance upgrade and that you have 1 dyno. Again I offer 100% to pay for a test between them, do 5 runs each back to back which is the way the test should be handled. I can tell you for a 100% fact, a pulley the same exact diameter as stock that is just lighter weight will NOT net that kind of increase you and ZPI and flaunting all over the net! That is the difference between air conditioning on and off for gods sake! Anyone that knows engines knows that.
Here are my terms.
I offer to buy a ZPI pulley if you can even get me one that can be shipped within this month to do a FULL comparison between the NST underdrive in which YOU DO NOT NEED TO PURCHASE THE ALT AND WATERPUMP PULLEY TO RUN! DUH! I will pay out of my own pocket for a true 3rd party to do 6 dyno runs back to back of each pulley to tell what the TRUE gain is. Not just "I ran it at one time, and then 5 minutes later with no control at all ran it agan and WOW batman! Magical numbers!" hell for all I know zpi reset the ecm between runs or let the car cool down to net more base timing, freakin lightweight flywheels do not net that kind of gain most of the time and all you have is a stock diameter aluminum pulley! *LOL* I know when things are BS and when they are not, I have been building engines and racing for years! I have run pulleys from Nevo, NST, Unothodox "however ya spell it" and underdrive pulleys net gains! I have them on race engines in my garage RIGHT NOW!
Only reason you want to see NST dyno numbers right now is because there is NO way any pulley, even a flawless clone of the zpi pulley will ever net the bs numbers that zpi posted up!
Stock diameter light weight pulleys like the zpi net gains but they are friggin small, those are the facts! Anyways, My offer stands. Since your one of the resident ZPI banner waivers, Set me up. I have cash in hand to prove you TOTALLY wrong and prove ZPI to be posting up TOTALLY false information as to the gain from there pulley. I would love to see a/f ratio information between those runs you are posting for ZPI as well, I know that car was either cooled down or ecm reset bewteen runs period and I know a/f ratios would not match between the runs.
Last, check your buddies own website, The price I stated is what is on the website!
Along with my offer, I will even video the whole thing without one cut or frame dropped. to prove every single thing I do. Wanna take me up on this challenge?
06-13-2006, 09:57 PM
#50
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Garage1217
What are you talking about? The NST underdrive pulley DOES NOT ROB power from other components *LOL* it slows there rotational speed down which overall nets a power increase from not having to spin them up as fast. The underdrive pulley does NOT require the purchase of the alternator or waterpump pulley period. The NST underdrive is a WICKED add on when undergoing other modifications to the car.
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
NST developed the alternator pulley to help spin the alternator up to stock speed for people with systems installed that need extra current at idle. The waterpump pulley was developed as a lightweight alternative to stock but is the same diameter as stock. It also is a major bling item at shows and looks killer.
Those are the facts guys. That and if you order and NST pulley it shows up at your house in very very short order like.... this decade, not next.
I have used NST pulleys for years now, I like there product so much I bought into them as a dealer a week or so ago and am proud to offer them as I know they are the best on the market with the best customer service period. What else can you expect from a company that specialty is PULLEYS. Not preorders..
Aaaaheeemm....if you would have read my post without emotion, you would have saw where I said...."IF YOU WANT SUBWOOFERS, YOU NEED TO BUY OTHER PULLIES". I really wish someone would do a before and after dyno of the NST crank pulley. Then do a dyno of it with the other associated pullies. So, that we may compare the gains vs. the competition. The competition already is lighter than NST's, so now I would like to see a HP gains comparison. And maybe you should do a little more research on what "UNDERDRIVEN" means.
I would be more than happy to test out a ZPI pulley vs an NST underdrive pulley ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. You think just weight savings alone nets hp gaines over slowing down the rotational speed of all components connected which takes less physical rotational energy from the engine? Also I would love to to a full blown test of a ZPI pulley vs an nst underdrive pulley including weight, diameter etc and of course many dyno runs done by a 3rd party. I will bet cash right now NST stomps on the zpi pulley. It is simple physics. The zpi has more rotational mass at the outer edge because it is overall a larger diameter.
I am not emotional at all over this, Just cannot figure out were you learned about how pulleys work? All you can say is ZPI is a tad lighter. I chose to carry NST because I know how pulleys work and the physics behind them. If someone made a better pulley for the tc, I would have been in contact with them or would have simply had my own machined because only top notch gear is acceptable in my eyes.
You think a 15" flywheel that weighs 10lbs 'ZPI EXAMPLE" on the outside edge will net a better gain than a 12" flywheel with 10.5lbs "NST EXAMPLE" on the outer edge? That is basically what you are saying when you are trying to compare the two and saying ZPI is better or will net better gains. And along that same fact, the NST pulley also is an underdrive pulley! That alone is a known FACT to produce more hp than just shaving some weight off a stock diameter pulley alone!
Again if ZPI can get a pulley in, I will be happy to even pay a 3rd party to do independant testing on a tc that is not even mine, it can be anyones car! Physics do not lie man.
And another fact is ZPI is charging people $145.99 for a non hard anodized stock diameter pulley! "hard anodizing $20 extra" when a known power producing design like the nst which is hard anodized can be had for $99? And even though you are a zpi guy, you can honestly say that is the right choice in pulleys being a basically bling bling lightweight stock pulley??? Man I just do not understand your logic on this other than you love zpi which is all fine and dandy.
Just incase you didn't know, Someone already weighed the NST pulley vs. the ZPI dude. A 3 paragraph paper is not needed. You either want to pay all the money for NST, or buy one pulley from ZPI, plain and simple. I'm sorry dude, but the difference in weight was not that small. Last time I checked, $150 was for Anodized. I don't understand your logic. You buy the NST pulley, you CAN'T RUN A SYSTEM, Unless you get their other pulley. How many people on here you know of, Don't run at least one subwoofer in their car?
Sorry dude, but until someone can do a before and after dyno run on of just the NST crank pulley ON A TC, then all you are spitting to me is nothing but theoretics....
Where were you when the independent 3rd party people tested their ZPI pullies?
Facts:
1) NST weighs more
2) ZPI's has been dynoed
3) For the tC's platform, NST's sales are driven from company name, and customer service. No one has said, buy NST because it gained X amount of HP MORE than the competition. No, they say get NST because you don't have to wait for it, or that their customer service is top notch. Don't confuse PERFORMANCE with Company Image.
Until you show me hard evidence, and facts, again, you are just blowing smoke. I don't give a crap about what you read in a book. Reading and Experiencing are two totally different things.
Man, gotta love those Theoritical people. No shread of evidence such as a dyno run, and yet you can claim it makes more power. When you show me some evidence, then I will give credit where credit is due.
I cannot even comment on what you just wrote.... the level of love you have for zpi is just.... unsettleing. You are blinded by a product they do not even make. All you keep saying is that it is lighter which is not by any means the sole purpose of purchasing a pulley as a performance upgrade and that you have 1 dyno. Again I offer 100% to pay for a test between them, do 5 runs each back to back which is the way the test should be handled. I can tell you for a 100% fact, a pulley the same exact diameter as stock that is just lighter weight will NOT net that kind of increase you and ZPI and flaunting all over the net! That is the difference between air conditioning on and off for gods sake! Anyone that knows engines knows that.
Here are my terms.
I offer to buy a ZPI pulley if you can even get me one that can be shipped within this month to do a FULL comparison between the NST underdrive in which YOU DO NOT NEED TO PURCHASE THE ALT AND WATERPUMP PULLEY TO RUN! DUH! I will pay out of my own pocket for a true 3rd party to do 6 dyno runs back to back of each pulley to tell what the TRUE gain is. Not just "I ran it at one time, and then 5 minutes later with no control at all ran it agan and WOW batman! Magical numbers!" hell for all I know zpi reset the ecm between runs or let the car cool down to net more base timing, freakin lightweight flywheels do not net that kind of gain most of the time and all you have is a stock diameter aluminum pulley! *LOL* I know when things are BS and when they are not, I have been building engines and racing for years! I have run pulleys from Nevo, NST, Unothodox "however ya spell it" and underdrive pulleys net gains! I have them on race engines in my garage RIGHT NOW!
Only reason you want to see NST dyno numbers right now is because there is NO way any pulley, even a flawless clone of the zpi pulley will ever net the bs numbers that zpi posted up!
Stock diameter light weight pulleys like the zpi net gains but they are friggin small, those are the facts! Anyways, My offer stands. Since your one of the resident ZPI banner waivers, Set me up. I have cash in hand to prove you TOTALLY wrong and prove ZPI to be posting up TOTALLY false information as to the gain from there pulley. I would love to see a/f ratio information between those runs you are posting for ZPI as well, I know that car was either cooled down or ecm reset bewteen runs period and I know a/f ratios would not match between the runs.
Last, check your buddies own website, The price I stated is what is on the website!
Along with my offer, I will even video the whole thing without one cut or frame dropped. to prove every single thing I do. Wanna take me up on this challenge?
Even if it's just one Dyno run.....It's still at least ONE dyno run. Get you some runs first, then you might have an argument.
Otherwise.....theories..
Refer to the post above. At least 50 witnesses to the whole dyno run. And NO ONE RESTED ANY ECU DUDE....ARE YOU SERIOUS!
Man I swear, I guess all of ZPI's products get doctored up dyno findings. I will PM Ben (yamaha16bw) so that he can chime in here and tell you boneheads that the dyno's where not doctored. And if you think he is a ZPI biased, banner waving client, then it wouldn't have made since that he bougth the Turbonetics turbo kit instead of the ZPI....
06-13-2006, 10:12 PM
#51
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 2,860
Well Just so everyone knows, My dyno was real and those are REAL PROVEN WHP #'s from the ZPI v.2 pulley. And yes I didnt go with the ZPI turbo kit I have the Turbonetics kit. I am in no way sponsored by ZPI. I only have the crank pulley and mid pipe on my car. That picture that Travis posted was taken with my camara on my dinner table.
06-13-2006, 10:13 PM
#52
Ok then, take me up on the offer! I will buy a zpi pulley if they even are for sale this month 
I will do back to back runs with the ZPI VS STOCK and then back to back with ZPI VS NST.
Also were are those a/f charts of the runs? Those will tell allot of what happened on that dyno.
Stop dancing around the point. I call total BS on ZPI's dyno claims of that pulley. I will BUY a pulley, and pay for the dyno runs just to prove you know nothing about what you speak of and are just pushing sales for ZPI!
I will do back to back runs with the ZPI VS STOCK and then back to back with ZPI VS NST.Also were are those a/f charts of the runs? Those will tell allot of what happened on that dyno.
Stop dancing around the point. I call total BS on ZPI's dyno claims of that pulley. I will BUY a pulley, and pay for the dyno runs just to prove you know nothing about what you speak of and are just pushing sales for ZPI!
06-13-2006, 10:14 PM
#53
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
WOW.....A few links down in the Drivetrain & Power section, how ironic is it that I find this thread and pic this quote out Pay attention to the BOLD SECTION:
Imagine that...
Originally Posted by soros151
Does any of you have a pulley and your engine is well after 60,000 miles? Any problems?
NOTE: This is not a pulley bash post or thread, please keep comments about how a pulley does damage to your engine to yourself, there has been many threads covering the damage that some say happens. So just post your opinion over the engines that have above 55,000 or 60,000 miles on it. No Bashing please.
June/9/2006
UPDATE: this is the count from pulley owners.
Pulley Owners and mileage of their engines.
Unknown mileage: 2
1,000-5,000 miles: 2
5,000-10,000 miles:2
11,000-20,000 miles:3
21,000-35,000 miles:1
36,000-50,000 miles:2
over 50,000 or 60,000 miles: 2
total:14
Helps:
*quicker acceleration at all RPM
problems:
*A/C with underdriven pulley, milage unknown, xB
This update does not represents nothing, it is only to show the amount of people using the pulleys and if any problems have been encountered. Thanks for all the info guys. Keep posting. Also, I don't have very much time in my hands and if these numbers look wrong please, I am super sorry, is just that I'm really tired,
NOTE: This is not a pulley bash post or thread, please keep comments about how a pulley does damage to your engine to yourself, there has been many threads covering the damage that some say happens. So just post your opinion over the engines that have above 55,000 or 60,000 miles on it. No Bashing please.
June/9/2006
UPDATE: this is the count from pulley owners.
Pulley Owners and mileage of their engines.
Unknown mileage: 2
1,000-5,000 miles: 2
5,000-10,000 miles:2
11,000-20,000 miles:3
21,000-35,000 miles:1
36,000-50,000 miles:2
over 50,000 or 60,000 miles: 2
total:14
Helps:
*quicker acceleration at all RPM
problems:
*A/C with underdriven pulley, milage unknown, xB
This update does not represents nothing, it is only to show the amount of people using the pulleys and if any problems have been encountered. Thanks for all the info guys. Keep posting. Also, I don't have very much time in my hands and if these numbers look wrong please, I am super sorry, is just that I'm really tired,
Imagine that...
06-13-2006, 10:17 PM
#54
Originally Posted by yamaha16bw
Well Just so everyone knows, My dyno was real and those are REAL PROVEN WHP3's from the ZPI v.2 pulley. And yes I didnt go with the ZPI turbo kit I have the Turbonetics kit. I am in no way sponsored by ZPI. I only have the crank pulley and mid pipe on my car.
06-13-2006, 10:19 PM
#55
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Ok then, take me up on the offer! I will buy a zpi pulley if they even are for sale this month I will do back to back runs with the ZPI VS STOCK and then back to back with ZPI VS NST.
Also were are those a/f charts of the runs? Those will tell allot of what happened on that dyno.
Stop dancing around the point. I call total BS on ZPI's dyno claims of that pulley. I will BUY a pulley, and pay for the dyno runs just to prove you know nothing about what you speak of and are just pushing sales for ZPI!
I will do back to back runs with the ZPI VS STOCK and then back to back with ZPI VS NST.Also were are those a/f charts of the runs? Those will tell allot of what happened on that dyno.
Stop dancing around the point. I call total BS on ZPI's dyno claims of that pulley. I will BUY a pulley, and pay for the dyno runs just to prove you know nothing about what you speak of and are just pushing sales for ZPI!
Dude seriously....Your a Joke..I'm done with you. The man has spoken, he has a non-biased opinion. GET OVER YOURSELF...
06-13-2006, 10:19 PM
#56
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 2,860
dude whats the deal. I'm sure any lighter crank pulley is going to produce higher hp numbers. Whats so hard to believe? Those numbers were made after about 7 pulls on the dyno.
06-13-2006, 10:20 PM
#57
Senior Member
SL Member
Scion Evolution
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 2,860
what are the NST dyno's saying? Ive yet to see one.
06-13-2006, 10:21 PM
#58
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by Garage1217
Originally Posted by yamaha16bw
Well Just so everyone knows, My dyno was real and those are REAL PROVEN WHP3's from the ZPI v.2 pulley. And yes I didnt go with the ZPI turbo kit I have the Turbonetics kit. I am in no way sponsored by ZPI. I only have the crank pulley and mid pipe on my car.
Yeah, I'm sure he is going to take apart his car, just so you can stroke your EGO... Funny how the only thing that is consistent in your post is about how there is a wait for the ZPI pullies...
Why would he do that...You just might Keep It!....
06-13-2006, 10:22 PM
#59
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
WOW.....A few links down in the Drivetrain & Power section, how ironic is it that I find this thread and pic this quote out Pay attention to the BOLD SECTION:
Imagine that...
Originally Posted by soros151
Does any of you have a pulley and your engine is well after 60,000 miles? Any problems?
NOTE: This is not a pulley bash post or thread, please keep comments about how a pulley does damage to your engine to yourself, there has been many threads covering the damage that some say happens. So just post your opinion over the engines that have above 55,000 or 60,000 miles on it. No Bashing please.
June/9/2006
UPDATE: this is the count from pulley owners.
Pulley Owners and mileage of their engines.
Unknown mileage: 2
1,000-5,000 miles: 2
5,000-10,000 miles:2
11,000-20,000 miles:3
21,000-35,000 miles:1
36,000-50,000 miles:2
over 50,000 or 60,000 miles: 2
total:14
Helps:
*quicker acceleration at all RPM
problems:
*A/C with underdriven pulley, milage unknown, xB
This update does not represents nothing, it is only to show the amount of people using the pulleys and if any problems have been encountered. Thanks for all the info guys. Keep posting. Also, I don't have very much time in my hands and if these numbers look wrong please, I am super sorry, is just that I'm really tired,
NOTE: This is not a pulley bash post or thread, please keep comments about how a pulley does damage to your engine to yourself, there has been many threads covering the damage that some say happens. So just post your opinion over the engines that have above 55,000 or 60,000 miles on it. No Bashing please.
June/9/2006
UPDATE: this is the count from pulley owners.
Pulley Owners and mileage of their engines.
Unknown mileage: 2
1,000-5,000 miles: 2
5,000-10,000 miles:2
11,000-20,000 miles:3
21,000-35,000 miles:1
36,000-50,000 miles:2
over 50,000 or 60,000 miles: 2
total:14
Helps:
*quicker acceleration at all RPM
problems:
*A/C with underdriven pulley, milage unknown, xB
This update does not represents nothing, it is only to show the amount of people using the pulleys and if any problems have been encountered. Thanks for all the info guys. Keep posting. Also, I don't have very much time in my hands and if these numbers look wrong please, I am super sorry, is just that I'm really tired,
Imagine that...
Your point??? Sorry man, there is zero point "pun intended" That says nothing about the amount it is underdriven, what brand, etc... Why pull crap out of the air off the net for no reason? That is like saying, 1 guy someplace somewhere on earth had a problem with a lightweight flywheel coming apart and that means I get to put the little stupid
smiley at the end of a sentence to sound important.
06-13-2006, 10:26 PM
#60
Originally Posted by yamaha16bw
what are the NST dyno's saying? Ive yet to see one.
I would run one tommorow, I cannot run an underdrive period with the sc. I am offering to pay you a good amount of cash for you to send me the zpi and I will send you a stock as a loaner.
Ry, please tell me exactly what is inconsistant in my posting..? Your trying the teenage retard method of attacking crap that does not exist hopeing that some kid somplace will only read your post and think you are correct.
My offer stands, If I am proven wrong I will send you each $50 extra cash. Take me up on it.