2LoTc

Not true. If a tc had one drive wheel off the ground, the contacting drive wheel WOULD be rotating at the SAME speed as the other non-contacting wheel! the torque bias would Remain the same (cuz its an open diff) and the contact wheel would pull/torque steer the car out of control-most likely.

if the tc had a limited slip or atb diff, THEN the diff would allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds, limiting the torque steer/bias of the contacting wheel.

But a more appropriate application in daily driving is simply cornering or turning. Especially with a FWD, in which the front wheels have not only the stress of being driven by the drivetrain, but also the responsibility of steering/turning the car, torque bias and transfer play a large part.

As your car enters a corner or turn, picture the path or line that the two front drive wheels will travel. A left hand turn, the right wheels travel a further radial distance than the left, and vice versa. Now if the wheels are rotating at the same velocity and applying the same torque to the ground (open diff) it makes it more difficult and stressful on tires, axels, etc.. for the drive wheels to travel different distances. Sounds confusing, sorry. Simply put, its EASIER for the inside wheels to turn/corner than the outer. An open diff does not allow for a difference in wheel velocity to compensate for this dynamic...while a limited slip or atb does.

Fidenza lightened flywheel (one week left)----FidAnza... Like Tony Danza
Tien Basics ---------------------------------Tein (pronounced Tane or Tine)
Hotchkiss Front and Rear Sway bars -------Hotchkis (its okay, i've seen hotchiks b4)

2LoTc

haha. watch out noobs, theres some bunk info in this thread

kungpaosamuraiii

Speaking of bunk information, your information is wrong; however, you ARE right that the open differential applies the same amount of torque to each wheel, but same amount of torque doesn't not equate to same wheel speed in both wheels in a turn.

All differentials except for locking differentials allow driver and passenger side wheels to turn at different speeds. Asphault and tire rubber are designed, for one, to not slip. It's known that the outside and inside wheel of a car travel different distances in a turn and to cover the different distances in the same amount of time, one wheel has to rotate faster than the other wheel.

If both wheels are forced to rotate at the same speed, that would put tremendous stress on the axles and transmission. In order to force both wheels to rotate at the same speed through a turn, one wheel is going to have to slip and in order to cause that slip, the engine needs to create enough power to overcome the friction force between the asphault and the tires and the axles need to be able to withstand both the engine's torque and the greater torque applied in the opposite direction by the ground and the tires.

No, open differentials allow the wheels to revolve at different speeds. The "open" part of the open differential is where the differential connects through freely revolving gears to the axles (both axles are connected to the same free gears and these gears themselves are connected to an input disc which is connected directly to the transmission's input shaft so the axles are not directly connected to the input shaft.) In a straight line, these gears don't move since both wheels are putting up an equal resistence to the drive but in a turn, one wheel will put up more resistence. The freely revolving gears will start to revolve to naturally allow the wheels to revolve at different speeds.

A LSD works by applying torque differently. They do so in a way that doesn't put extra stress on other drive train components.

2LoTc

haha. yeah okay buddy. You just typed about 300 hundreds..none of which makes any logical sense whatsoever.

you basically requoted everything i said about wheel velocity and turning radius..you're a bit confused about the TC's Diff though..

and then you add ONE LINE about a LSD:"A LSD works by applying torque differently. They do so in a way that doesn't put extra stress on other drive train components."

WOW!!! SO INFORMATIVE!!! if i wanted some kid to go google differentials, transmissions and drivetrain components i would have asked you to. Otherwise..IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET and put it into your OWN WORDS..THEN DON'T POST IT!

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

**SMACK**

kungpaosamuraiii

Mmm, in anycase, an open differential allows different wheel speeds, left to right while an LSD tries to keep it similar. You're mostly right but you got it backwards. I suppose I don't make much sense but in all honesty, it's hard to describe a differential without pictures.

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

Whats the average ...going rate ... or something like this to install. I would assume its going to be a few $$

GetCaughtDead

wow, 2LoTc, just wow. kungpaosamuraiii is right, and you seem to be a little mixed up. As for Complication, he quoted a friggin encyclopedia, dumb ****. but I love it how you will go rambling off a bunch of baloney and not only talk smack on the guy who has it right, but you actually have the audacity to WARN NOOBS?!! wtf is that??

ANYWAY, as was mentioned by a couple of people, excluding 2LoTc, with a normal open differential like you'll find in our cars (and most without an LSD) if you have one wheel off the ground (a hypothetical way of saying you don't have any traction on that wheel) the wheel that IS touching the ground won't move, and neither will your car. what WILL happen is the wheel that's in the air will spin twice as fast.

In *most* limited slip differentials, there are actually small spring loaded friction plates inside the differential that *can* be overcome (e.g. if one wheel was stuck solid in a ditch, you'd break something if the other wheel wasn't allowed to slip) but the LSD will still try to force some of the torque to turn the non-moving wheel. hence the "limted" part of limited slip differential... the slip is limited, but not completely stopped (that would be the locking differential that somebody mentioned, not 2LoTc though).

now technically, as I mentioned real quick before, the quaife is actually an "automatic torque biasing" (ATB, not LSD) differential. the quaife doesn't use friction plates like your typical LSD does, like Phantom Grip for example. don't ask me to explain how it works because I've searched and can't really find a good explanation, and that might be just because it's proprietary info of Quaife and they don't want to share. but still, the quaife performs the same function as any other LSD, only theoretically better.

oh, and 2LoTc, if you really want to argue, just spare us all the agony and the misinformation and read all about it for yourself at http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm. they've got some sweet animations too in case you're too lazy to actually read the article.

kikcaffine

w00t animations FTW!

Complication

wow, dammn dude, did we catch you off the wrong side of the bed? or are you just a plain ole` ""Void surrounded by a sphincter muscle"" (you catch my drift...)

try to keep this as unchild like as possible. (if thats possible, I dont want to force you to do somthing thats out of your personal ability). yes we all know you can use a keyboard, and of couse your above comment has eleavated you to become MORE of a man the rest of us here. I think we all saw that...

the orignal was a simple question and all it required was a simple answer you didn't have to go spouting off names and insults like that.

thats all I have to say to you.

Complication

I'm getting charged just under $600 for install

2LoTc

haha. ookay. well anyway..i was talking to my buddy tonite who is a certified quaife dealer, and since he loves us scion owners so much, he said he could probably get you all a discounted price on the quaife diff.

2LoTc

it just bothers me when people go and look stuff up from websites and then basically quote word for word what they read, eventhough they don't understand it.

Sometimes websites have the exact correct info and sometimes its a little bit off...

Going to read your article now, i'll let cha know how it is. eventhough i'm Sure i've read it before. Howstuffworks.com is cool, though some of the auto stuff is a little mixed up or misprinted..

GetCaughtDead

calm down Comp. I don't have a problem with you at all, I only have a problem with noobs coming in spreading bogus information, and then making fun of those who 1)know what they're talking about already, 2)have made the effort to do a little research for themselves, and 3)have quoted from legitimate online sources. Then he laughs, warns all the "noobs" (ironic, isn't it?), and continues spouting off more nonsense. All I was saying is that you quoted from an online encyclopedia, which carries more credibility than some stupid noob.
and who are you to decide whether or not we can comprehend a simply stated excerpt from wikipedia?? I'd surely rather someone post a quote from there than listen to your misinformed opinion.

2LoTc

i guess its true then..you virginia hix are really dumb.

2LoTc

i read that Howstuffworks article on diff's. Have to say, was NOT very informative or helpful. Their writeups on Engine cycles and other auto/mechanics issues are pretty good though.

Sorry, u can't believe Everything you read on the internet.

i may have misstated some info, but I KNOW what I'm talking about. Since you're all so sure of yourselves, why don't u call Rich, a certified quaife dealer and talk to him about diff's. 610 789 7080.

Complication

to be honest, I didn't even read the post I placed in refrence to Wikipedia. I was in a hurry googoled and posted the first thing that poped up. I accepted Wikipedia becuse it had never given me a problem in college.

I guess this is all due to me being a bit to lazy.

but heres the point,

I get my car back today! and no matter who says what, I am gonna drive the H-E-dubble-L outta my car, and have fun doing it. (after its broken in of course! )

I will post a few fun videos as soon as I can get some junker tires (prob the end of this week)

2LoTc

DOn't be surprised if your car is SLOWER. THat diff def weighs A LOT more than stock.

Stu_Gotti

Keep this on topic gentlemen

GetCaughtDead

"Virginia hicks" that's funny! especially considering I've been here for about a month, moved here because I got a job with a company that builds satellites and rockets, I live about 30 minutes from DC, and everywhere I look I see a mercedes, bmw, infinity, etc. etc. there's a ferrari/maserati dealership right across the street. I don't know what part of that says "hick".

find me one thing in that wikipedia article that isn't true!

Funny, the only things I've read in this entire thread that aren't true have come from you!!