Monster Motorworks Race Header Dyno!
08-26-2005, 03:51 AM
#64
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so, it is WHP? cool, i just curious. Thanks a lot. Since the first time that i saw that header and i notice that it was from weapon r, i knew that it was going to be good, but never thought about the idea of a "complete header", it just much better.
but, i have one last question... some people with antifoulers and o2 simulators use them to avoid the CEL that cause their headers, but... what makes this header to dont throw the CEL? because they said the same for the Megan header with pre-cat, that after certain amount of milles it throw it anyway... WHAT MAKES THIS HEADER TO DONT THROW THE CEL?
but, i have one last question... some people with antifoulers and o2 simulators use them to avoid the CEL that cause their headers, but... what makes this header to dont throw the CEL? because they said the same for the Megan header with pre-cat, that after certain amount of milles it throw it anyway... WHAT MAKES THIS HEADER TO DONT THROW THE CEL?
08-26-2005, 03:58 AM
#65
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thansk for the props..
What did we do to not make the header throw a CEL light?
That all comes with experience with fabricating race headers.
In short I cant tell you how we designed it to not throw a CEL light WITHOUT A ANTIFOULER.
But our headers DO NOT throw a CEL Light.
What did we do to not make the header throw a CEL light?
That all comes with experience with fabricating race headers.
In short I cant tell you how we designed it to not throw a CEL light WITHOUT A ANTIFOULER.
But our headers DO NOT throw a CEL Light.
08-26-2005, 04:08 AM
#66
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ok, perfect. i only wanted to know if you use anything, but as i can see, you dont. 
we are going to wait for the dyno of the header on a stock tC...i want to see how WR Header proves its superiority over the AW one.
we are going to wait for the dyno of the header on a stock tC...i want to see how WR Header proves its superiority over the AW one.
08-26-2005, 04:52 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by acasanova
Originally Posted by WeaponR_Ray
I have yet to see the acclaimed AlphaWerks header dynoed by itself, on a stock vehicle. They dynoed their header with a myriad of other performance parts to produce their numbers. Now did I hear anyone go rampant about that? Well we'll be dynoing each mod piece by piece, so wait for those results...
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...er=asc&start=0
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...866&mode=guest
Dynos where performed by one of the common members here on base 5sp no OTHER MODS gains where 11hp 10tq. In my case i gained 14hp on 4sp with header and short ram. Ill post more Alphawerk dynos performed by members, not vendors all gains where from 9.5 hp up to 11.
and as for the results of teh monster TC...
i think the car is underrated. i really believe it should produce more power.
how was the weather at the time of the dyno? tat should affect it a lot.
08-26-2005, 05:02 AM
#73
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I have one thing to say..
That dyno test on the AW header..
It was done at 2 different dyno's.
It was not back to back, with and without the AW header.
Different Dyno's different figures..
I highly doubt that that header did give that much power.
I got money on it that if you reset the ECU and then put the stock header back on and run it a few times and get a baseline, then install the AW header and then make some passes it wont make that much power on the SAME DYNO.
That dyno test on the AW header..
It was done at 2 different dyno's.
It was not back to back, with and without the AW header.
Different Dyno's different figures..
I highly doubt that that header did give that much power.
I got money on it that if you reset the ECU and then put the stock header back on and run it a few times and get a baseline, then install the AW header and then make some passes it wont make that much power on the SAME DYNO.
to bad.
08-26-2005, 08:01 AM
#77
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Originally Posted by acasanova
Originally Posted by kungpaosamuraiii
as well as an intake (to allow the air to be taken in faster)
with the stock airbox, i dont think the header would be as effective.
with the stock airbox, i dont think the header would be as effective.
Alphawerks got 24 hp and 9 torque from intake, header, exhaust, and throttle body. The Alphawerks header by itself doesn't net all that much, neither does just an intake or exhaust or even a throttle body. The key is that all the parts together net a yield that is greater than the sum of the parts (not saying that you can add up all the individual gains.)
An engine can only breathe as well as it's most restrictive part. The only way to truly demonstrate how effective a part is is to flow test it by itself (no engine - just a fluid.) Asking for a dyno with only the header is rediculous because that will show just a little bit more hp yield than the other headers which people would then think that as indicative of only being able to yield a little more than other headers and thus people won't buy this thinking it costs far too much for just a few more hp.
Edit: instaposted by MMW.
Gain from the Alphawerk header,TB,E,I where 24hp 19tq not 9. Your statement regarding a header alone not netting much is inaccurate. Header alone on a TC yields 10hp 10tq, been proven on several dynos. 10hp is a nice addition to any 4banger in this weight engine and vehicle class, and by no means "not that much". Obviously a header complemented with I,E will yield much better numbers. But the point is a Header alone on the TC yields 10hp not with any other assisting mod! So MW it makes perfect sense for you to test header alone on a stock TC. A close coupled cat design is very restrictive, example Nissan Sentra SE-R spec v gains nearly 15hp 15tq from header alone, HP racing header and no other supporting mods. So just imagine an Alphawerk header with S pipe, I,E. Gains would perhaps surpass 24hp 19tq. Im quite aware that the MW design is superior. However it would have been very intersting to see if your MW design header matches or beats a "header alone" 10hp 10tq gain on a stock TC.
In any case I noted my number 1 slip - 19 not 9
9.. 19.. tom(ay)toes, tom(ah)toes..
But I still disagree in that a header alone is pointless. Of course, people add parts one by one and not all at once but in the end if you get a header chances are you'll get an intake and perhaps exhaust as well.
My point is that again, an engine is only as efficient as it's most inefficient part. I can just about guarantee that the MMW header will dyno more than any other header out there as the MMW also deletes and replaces the S pipe. It will still be as inefficient as the stock intake and exhaust.
You said that a header alones makes 10 hp on the tC but the deal is that's just saying that the stock header restricts 10 hp. A good difference would be the type of header and the engineering but even then - we already have the DC and the Alphawerks which represent two of the most common types of headers out there and the difference in gains is minimal.
Let's say the AW dynos 10 hp, the DC dynos 7 and the MMW dynos 14. That basically just tells us the 4-1 design makes about 3 more hp than the 4-2-1 design that makes power everywhere and that the stock S pipe restricts about 7 hp from the 4-2-1 design.
If you really want to know what each system is capable of you need to really open up either side of the header.
BTW, thanks for not calling me an idiot for accidentally forgoing a '1' in the 10's place on the number 19.
08-26-2005, 04:41 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by acasanova
Originally Posted by monstermotorworks
Same car:
MMW Intake / MMW Ignition Equalizer / MMW Engine Damper / ZPI Exhaust.
The graph shows the gains total with the Header installed.
MMW Intake / MMW Ignition Equalizer / MMW Engine Damper / ZPI Exhaust.
The graph shows the gains total with the Header installed.
I dont know ill be over there saturday so Ill get to see it myself... Seeing is believing
08-26-2005, 05:35 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by monstermotorworks
Why would anyone put a header on a stock car.
To get the full potential out of the car you need it to breathe right?
And i think what were discussing is the DIFFERENCE of Before and After the header install.
It would be worthless to install the header on a STOCK car.
Who would install a header on a car with stock exhaust?
Thats just Backwards.
Usually people upgrade in this manner.
1. Intake
2. Exhaust
3. Header.
you want to make it breathe better first then put on a header.
To get the full potential out of the car you need it to breathe right?
And i think what were discussing is the DIFFERENCE of Before and After the header install.
It would be worthless to install the header on a STOCK car.
Who would install a header on a car with stock exhaust?
Thats just Backwards.
Usually people upgrade in this manner.
1. Intake
2. Exhaust
3. Header.
you want to make it breathe better first then put on a header.
ok.. i understand your points... but try to understand the reasoning behind the request for the test on a stock tc.... when you look at buying an after market peice.. take for example..your intake... if you were to say.. it creates 10hp.... then those of us with just a stock tc.. could see that without spending any more money.. we could see 10hp by droping in your intake... same for any other part.,.. if you were to say.,,, thre header puts out say 5 hp with nothing else.. then we can see that with no more money we can see 5hp.... there is nothing wrong with testing it with all the goodies so you can see what the total effect is.. but it would be nice to see individual part gains....
i have an trd axle back exhaust.. would i see the entire gain... probably not... but again it would be nice to see what i would get if i were to buy your header... your numbers are very impressive.... but those numbers are with.. $1500+......... not $850.....
again.. im not knocking your numbers or your efforts... just sharing a point of view..