Monster Motorworks Race Header Dyno!
08-26-2005, 05:51 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by monstermotorworks
I have one thing to say..
That dyno test on the AW header..
It was done at 2 different dyno's.
It was not back to back, with and without the AW header.
Different Dyno's different figures..
I highly doubt that that header did give that much power.
I got money on it that if you reset the ECU and then put the stock header back on and run it a few times and get a baseline, then install the AW header and then make some passes it wont make that much power on the SAME DYNO.
That dyno test on the AW header..
It was done at 2 different dyno's.
It was not back to back, with and without the AW header.
Different Dyno's different figures..
I highly doubt that that header did give that much power.
I got money on it that if you reset the ECU and then put the stock header back on and run it a few times and get a baseline, then install the AW header and then make some passes it wont make that much power on the SAME DYNO.
Monsterworks no one is questioning your numbers and calling them BS. So why do you have to go and berate members dyno runs, ill post some more links to keep your skepticism to a minimum.
08-26-2005, 05:56 PM
#82
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You should always remove the restrictions closest to the engine first. As far as I'm concerned, intake, throttlebody and header should be your first mods. The header is the biggest restriction closest to the engine, especially considering the pre-cat. It makes sense that it would make the largest gain.Then you can do S-pipe, mid-pipe and axleback which are basically noise makers except for the removal of the second cat in the mid-pipe.
08-26-2005, 06:01 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by Petem
Originally Posted by monstermotorworks
Why would anyone put a header on a stock car.
To get the full potential out of the car you need it to breathe right?
And i think what were discussing is the DIFFERENCE of Before and After the header install.
It would be worthless to install the header on a STOCK car.
Who would install a header on a car with stock exhaust?
Thats just Backwards.
Usually people upgrade in this manner.
1. Intake
2. Exhaust
3. Header.
you want to make it breathe better first then put on a header.
To get the full potential out of the car you need it to breathe right?
And i think what were discussing is the DIFFERENCE of Before and After the header install.
It would be worthless to install the header on a STOCK car.
Who would install a header on a car with stock exhaust?
Thats just Backwards.
Usually people upgrade in this manner.
1. Intake
2. Exhaust
3. Header.
you want to make it breathe better first then put on a header.
ok.. i understand your points... but try to understand the reasoning behind the request for the test on a stock tc.... when you look at buying an after market peice.. take for example..your intake... if you were to say.. it creates 10hp.... then those of us with just a stock tc.. could see that without spending any more money.. we could see 10hp by droping in your intake... same for any other part.,.. if you were to say.,,, thre header puts out say 5 hp with nothing else.. then we can see that with no more money we can see 5hp.... there is nothing wrong with testing it with all the goodies so you can see what the total effect is.. but it would be nice to see individual part gains....
i have an trd axle back exhaust.. would i see the entire gain... probably not... but again it would be nice to see what i would get if i were to buy your header... your numbers are very impressive.... but those numbers are with.. $1500+......... not $850.....
again.. im not knocking your numbers or your efforts... just sharing a point of view..
08-26-2005, 06:05 PM
#85
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Monsterworks no one is questioning your numbers and calling them BS. So why do you have to go and berate members dyno runs, ill post some more links to keep your skepticism to a minimum.
Im just pointing out what people think is true.
If you think i was bashing, i am sorry.
But the truth of the matter is that different dyno's different numbers.
And if the dyno runs are not done back to back, numbers will also change.
It can be the temperature, almost anything.
And as for change everything closest to the engine.
That kind of thin king is not correct.
You need the engine to breathe better first.
Intake: so it takes in more air
Exhaust: so it can expell gasses faster.
Header: to help the exhaust gasses come out even fater and in a uniform manner.
You simply dont go backwards and install a header with a stock exhaust.
It's like shoving a plug in your ****, when you really gotta go #2.
08-26-2005, 06:33 PM
#86
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I have to call you out on that one. Having the pre cat so close to the exhaust ports has to choke the engine big time. I know I have no real interest in getting an exhaust beacause I dont want a loud car, but I do really want a header to free up the motor. In just about any application, the cat is one of the most restricitve parts and getting rid of one is going to guarantee a boost in HP whether you are using your design or the alpha/DC design. I know a lot of people have similar interests as myself with all of the posts about raspy sounding exhaust and waiting for an exhaust that actually makes the car sound good with a header so testing your header on a car with maybe an intake only would be appreciated by a lot of members here who are waiting on a good sounding exhaust but want a header now.
I just find it funny that in almost all of your posts, when a potential customer asks you a question about your parts to better inform themselves about whether or not to buy your parts, you shut them down and tell them they are wrong for asking the question. I know dyno time is expensive and time consuming, but if a majority of the people want the part tested a certain way, wouldnt it be in your best interest to do it..even if it goes against your personal godlike logic? Also if your product is better than the other designs, you will still get higher #s than theirs on a bone stock car so why not just do it that way and prove you are better?
I just find it funny that in almost all of your posts, when a potential customer asks you a question about your parts to better inform themselves about whether or not to buy your parts, you shut them down and tell them they are wrong for asking the question. I know dyno time is expensive and time consuming, but if a majority of the people want the part tested a certain way, wouldnt it be in your best interest to do it..even if it goes against your personal godlike logic? Also if your product is better than the other designs, you will still get higher #s than theirs on a bone stock car so why not just do it that way and prove you are better?
08-26-2005, 06:54 PM
#88
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Everyone this back and forth ____ is out of control... they released the numbers... Done over with....
You wanna argue about what you think comes first. Honestly up to the person buying it. Everyone has different opinions.
You wanna argue about what you think comes first. Honestly up to the person buying it. Everyone has different opinions.
08-26-2005, 06:58 PM
#89
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You simply dont go backwards and install a header with a stock exhaust.
It's like shoving a plug in your ****, when you really gotta go #2.
It's like shoving a plug in your ****, when you really gotta go #2.
As far as going through crap when they release stuff, its all brought on by themselves with negative attitudes and treating us like retarded children when we ask seemingly valid questions and request relevant information. I am very impressed with the quality of their parts, but if they expext me to take evrything they say as gospel and agree with them 100% then they are dead wrong.
08-26-2005, 07:13 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by The Instigator
As far as going through crap when they release stuff, its all brought on by themselves with negative attitudes and treating us like retarded children when we ask seemingly valid questions and request relevant information. I am very impressed with the quality of their parts, but if they expext me to take evrything they say as gospel and agree with them 100% then they are dead wrong.
and BINGO was his name-o
08-26-2005, 07:24 PM
#92
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There is going to be a certain point where any header, no matter how well designed, will not be able to net anymore gains because it is bogged down by another part.
No matter how well this header will flow it couldn't possibly make all that much more than a different header with an S pipe. The best way of comparing is not to run each different header on a stock system as the difference will be fairly small until you hit the MMW but only because it also changes the S pipe.
Would anyone want a dyno of just the S pipe on a stock system? It'd be pointless, to be honest. The S pipe is very restrictive, varying in size and having more convoluted pathway than required but by itself it can't do much. Of course, the stock header would be preventing the engine from using the new S pipe to it's fullest potential. With that said, it would make the most sense to open up the header in order to see what kind of gains the S pipe is capable of making. We all know that a header should make about 10 hp give or take a 3 perhaps. But that it not what these headers are capable of making. They are probably capable of making more.
If it were up to me, I would run some sort of fluid through the header and test the volume and velocity of the fluid coming out and compare to the stock header. Sport Compact Car (I think) did that with different intakes on the RSX and determined that the AEM intake was able to flow the best of several intakes. That kind of test would definitively prove how good any part is. But unless someone is willing to do that, the next best thing is opening as best as possible both ends of any given part so they can work to the maximum of their potential.
No matter how well this header will flow it couldn't possibly make all that much more than a different header with an S pipe. The best way of comparing is not to run each different header on a stock system as the difference will be fairly small until you hit the MMW but only because it also changes the S pipe.
Would anyone want a dyno of just the S pipe on a stock system? It'd be pointless, to be honest. The S pipe is very restrictive, varying in size and having more convoluted pathway than required but by itself it can't do much. Of course, the stock header would be preventing the engine from using the new S pipe to it's fullest potential. With that said, it would make the most sense to open up the header in order to see what kind of gains the S pipe is capable of making. We all know that a header should make about 10 hp give or take a 3 perhaps. But that it not what these headers are capable of making. They are probably capable of making more.
If it were up to me, I would run some sort of fluid through the header and test the volume and velocity of the fluid coming out and compare to the stock header. Sport Compact Car (I think) did that with different intakes on the RSX and determined that the AEM intake was able to flow the best of several intakes. That kind of test would definitively prove how good any part is. But unless someone is willing to do that, the next best thing is opening as best as possible both ends of any given part so they can work to the maximum of their potential.
08-26-2005, 07:37 PM
#93
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ok... MMW header is the best, because it is a COMPLETE header... maybe thats the reason that it reports more hp gains... maybe if you put another header with s pipe you will get aprox the same hp gain, but the difference is that one is only one product and the others dont.
08-26-2005, 07:40 PM
#94
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Im not putting anyone down..
What im saying is industry standard.
It's not my job to try to convince you to buy our products.
I show you what we make and what the numbers are.
you ask for my opinion so i tell you what i know.
You can call any place, and ask them if you should put a header on before you put on an exhaust.
the reality of it is, it will not make as much gains as if you had an exhaust, so why do it, if you wont get the full potential out of your investment?
What im trying to say is if you want to do it your way, thats up to you.
But we do not see any valid reason to dyno back and forth, unless somoene is goign to pay for it.
It's just going backwards.
Someone call magnaflow and they will tell you the same.
It's just not smart to install a header on a stock exhaust.
you got good flow coming out of the header , but then you got a stock muffler bottlenecking the whole thing.
So why do it then?
What im saying is industry standard.
It's not my job to try to convince you to buy our products.
I show you what we make and what the numbers are.
you ask for my opinion so i tell you what i know.
You can call any place, and ask them if you should put a header on before you put on an exhaust.
the reality of it is, it will not make as much gains as if you had an exhaust, so why do it, if you wont get the full potential out of your investment?
What im trying to say is if you want to do it your way, thats up to you.
But we do not see any valid reason to dyno back and forth, unless somoene is goign to pay for it.
It's just going backwards.
Someone call magnaflow and they will tell you the same.
It's just not smart to install a header on a stock exhaust.
you got good flow coming out of the header , but then you got a stock muffler bottlenecking the whole thing.
So why do it then?
08-26-2005, 10:01 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by The Instigator
You are losing a cat!! Big increase in exhaust flow with or without an exhaust system!!
http://www.nexusindustry.com/alpha_frameset_dyno.htm
http://suzukird1.netfirms.com/scion-..._session_1.php
08-26-2005, 11:02 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by Revilo
only the header and intake of WR are making 19whp gain...
it is imposible that adding exhaust, ignition eq, engine damper, and the cold air box make less than the header and the intake together
it is imposible that adding exhaust, ignition eq, engine damper, and the cold air box make less than the header and the intake together
