NA Dyno : 186.5 whp/ 190 tq...
12-08-2009, 02:41 PM
#41
Nearly 200whp is possible N/A without touching cams. I do know of one party whom achieved this. His mods where:
Custom CAI
DC Sports Header
Custom Open S-pipe/Exhaust
Crank, Alt and WP pulleys
AEM EMS fully tuned with VVT-I
Ported & Polished head
To the OP, you have an excellent foundation. Keep up the good work.
Custom CAI
DC Sports Header
Custom Open S-pipe/Exhaust
Crank, Alt and WP pulleys
AEM EMS fully tuned with VVT-I
Ported & Polished head
To the OP, you have an excellent foundation. Keep up the good work.
12-08-2009, 02:42 PM
#42
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well i used the FIC for that alone... to smooth out my AFRs because in low and midrange they were all over the place.. at high rpms it was a nice 13.5 -13.7 which is about right for the car at NA levels
now granted this was also over a year ago and there was no full standalones available to me. So basically i could never get around to advancing the timing probably another 5 to 10 degrees and i'd be set...
my car was also on the stock midpipe which was another factor. At that time i had some financial things i needed to take care of which were more important so i also had to slow down the build. even cams where not available when i was doing this. maybe now if i was just starting it would be different. But im also starting to go deep into the FI build and frankly turbo > NA in terms of money spent and time. plus i after driving a few turbo cars as of late.... being NA is just not in the same level.
now granted this was also over a year ago and there was no full standalones available to me. So basically i could never get around to advancing the timing probably another 5 to 10 degrees and i'd be set...
my car was also on the stock midpipe which was another factor. At that time i had some financial things i needed to take care of which were more important so i also had to slow down the build. even cams where not available when i was doing this. maybe now if i was just starting it would be different. But im also starting to go deep into the FI build and frankly turbo > NA in terms of money spent and time. plus i after driving a few turbo cars as of late.... being NA is just not in the same level.
12-08-2009, 02:47 PM
#43
Boost = best bang for buck
12-08-2009, 02:56 PM
#44
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Nearly 200whp is possible N/A without touching cams. I do know of one party whom achieved this. His mods where:
Custom CAI
DC Sports Header
Custom Open S-pipe/Exhaust
Crank, Alt and WP pulleys
AEM EMS fully tuned with VVT-I
Ported & Polished head
To the OP, you have an excellent foundation. Keep up the good work.
Custom CAI
DC Sports Header
Custom Open S-pipe/Exhaust
Crank, Alt and WP pulleys
AEM EMS fully tuned with VVT-I
Ported & Polished head
To the OP, you have an excellent foundation. Keep up the good work.
i agree... for the money and head aches.. turbo is much easier. but my NA build didnt cost much. the most expensive trail and error part was the head because at the time there was no decent valvetrain upgrades or oversized valves. Me and my tech PR friends decided to try another manf. brands valves on the tc and the specs where so close we decided to modify them and it worked out nicely.
sadly now that manf. now makes tc valve trains hahaha.. only took about a year later for them to do it...
12-08-2009, 03:02 PM
#45
how close is close?
i agree... for the money and head aches.. turbo is much easier. but my NA build didnt cost much. the most expensive trail and error part was the head because at the time there was no decent valvetrain upgrades or oversized valves. Me and my tech PR friends decided to try another manf. brands valves on the tc and the specs where so close we decided to modify them and it worked out nicely.
sadly now that manf. now makes tc valve trains hahaha.. only took about a year later for them to do it...
i agree... for the money and head aches.. turbo is much easier. but my NA build didnt cost much. the most expensive trail and error part was the head because at the time there was no decent valvetrain upgrades or oversized valves. Me and my tech PR friends decided to try another manf. brands valves on the tc and the specs where so close we decided to modify them and it worked out nicely.
sadly now that manf. now makes tc valve trains hahaha.. only took about a year later for them to do it...
12-08-2009, 03:12 PM
#47
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Im telling you, Race gas is what these cars need to get some major NA power out of them.
And i really good tuner. You can spend a hour chasing 1-3 whp. But in the end. Its amazing.
My friend All motor no nitrous does 9.70 At 138mph and race gas. Oviously not a tc.
If i posted a screen shot of his timing map, people here would get scared LOL
And i really good tuner. You can spend a hour chasing 1-3 whp. But in the end. Its amazing.
My friend All motor no nitrous does 9.70 At 138mph and race gas. Oviously not a tc.
If i posted a screen shot of his timing map, people here would get scared LOL
12-08-2009, 03:22 PM
#49
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yes mike.. because driving daily on races gas is exactly how i roll hahahaha...
u should see my buddies 10 sec. K series .... his timing is advanced into the freaking future. i built is head also... probably my best work =)... godzilla is next (aka my car)
u should see my buddies 10 sec. K series .... his timing is advanced into the freaking future. i built is head also... probably my best work =)... godzilla is next (aka my car)
12-08-2009, 03:59 PM
#51
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Don't worry about getting a second dyno opinion. Even if your numbers were slightly inflated, it would be off only by a couple of ponnies, so I would be satisfied with the numbers. Now you can throw on some management, head work, etc... Throw nitrous on there while you at it. N/A build by itself is a lonely road.
12-08-2009, 09:14 PM
#53
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I cant wait to see what I can put down with a good tune..
I am working on getting some form of EMS and I am hoping that with a good tune I can pick up another 15-20whp and see how close I can get my bolt-ons to the affore mentioned near 200whp car. Once I have one picked out. I will tune it.. and post results..
Phase 1. Bolt ons + tune -- w/7k redline{current bolt-ons in sig.}
Phase 2. Full NST Pulley set, World Racing Intake manifold, and Brian Crower stage 2 cams {re-tuned}
Phase 3. PnP Head {built} -- 7500 rpm redline {re-tuned... last time before the "Big Choice"}
Phase 4. ????? Still undecided either I will destroke the motor and build it for a 8500 or 9k redline.. or I will sell off the NA stuff and go boost...
I am working on getting some form of EMS and I am hoping that with a good tune I can pick up another 15-20whp and see how close I can get my bolt-ons to the affore mentioned near 200whp car. Once I have one picked out. I will tune it.. and post results..
Phase 1. Bolt ons + tune -- w/7k redline{current bolt-ons in sig.}
Phase 2. Full NST Pulley set, World Racing Intake manifold, and Brian Crower stage 2 cams {re-tuned}
Phase 3. PnP Head {built} -- 7500 rpm redline {re-tuned... last time before the "Big Choice"}
Phase 4. ????? Still undecided either I will destroke the motor and build it for a 8500 or 9k redline.. or I will sell off the NA stuff and go boost...
12-08-2009, 09:21 PM
#54
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the manifold Rob is selling isnt something i might recommend for an NA setup... typically an ideal manifold would have very long runners for an NA setup. From the pics i saw of the WWR one they look short which for NA might hinder your goals.. i would opt those 700 bucks and use that for a good valve train and possibly towards your NA cams.
im still extremely skeptical about them since ive YET to see any real data or performance showing of them on an NA platform.
im still extremely skeptical about them since ive YET to see any real data or performance showing of them on an NA platform.
12-08-2009, 10:26 PM
#55
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Yeah... you make a good point pete.. eventually I will be boosting the car so The Cams are the only "N/A" only mod I will be looking into. I have been told I would be able to see a dyno of the cams in action... but still nothing and that was 2 weeks ago. I just want to be able to post up a series of dynos so that people that are going NA have something to look at... towards.. etc. I have been diggin your build for the longest I just dont have the money to do a full build for NA and then turn around and re-build for boost.. so I am picking things that can be used "for the most part" on either platform so that once I have gotten some fun times out of the NA setup I can then boost.. and smile as I ppppssssshhhhhhhhhh on people.
12-08-2009, 10:58 PM
#56
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im sorry i dont want to be Debbie downer but wtf.....
some say yes 180-90 is possible...
others say no, no way.....
i don't get it, but if someone clarify if these numbers are legit before crying wolf it would be appreciated......
with that being said if someone could get 200whp with i/h/e/pulley set, and some type of e-mange like aem ems or uni-chip let me know because that is the rt im headed
some say yes 180-90 is possible...
others say no, no way.....
i don't get it, but if someone clarify if these numbers are legit before crying wolf it would be appreciated......
with that being said if someone could get 200whp with i/h/e/pulley set, and some type of e-mange like aem ems or uni-chip let me know because that is the rt im headed
12-08-2009, 11:20 PM
#58
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that dyno reads way to high... based on your mods... theres no way u should be breaking even 180... even 175 is pushing it based on just what you listed.
the cams might help... but in all honesty.. unless you throw in higher compression pistons.. its going to be really hard to break 200. this is from my experience.. ive never seen anyone beat me @ 195 whp... and considering this was on the stock midpipe also and no tuning i can probably go back and reach 200 if i wanted to.
never the less good job so far but i would go to another dyno to confirm your numbers because they seem a little inflated.. unless you have a factory freak which is a good possibility
the cams might help... but in all honesty.. unless you throw in higher compression pistons.. its going to be really hard to break 200. this is from my experience.. ive never seen anyone beat me @ 195 whp... and considering this was on the stock midpipe also and no tuning i can probably go back and reach 200 if i wanted to.
never the less good job so far but i would go to another dyno to confirm your numbers because they seem a little inflated.. unless you have a factory freak which is a good possibility
Well,
IMO, you want 200whp..
Do this:
A Good Cold air intake
Long tube headers
good 2.5 exhaust
Greddy emanage Ult
93 octane gas
AEM Water/Meth kit
BC stage 3 cams
Ported head
high comp pistons.
With this setup you should be able to hit the 225-250 WHP mark.
IMO putting a aem fic on a na car is pointless, The only benfit of this would be to smooth fuel map. Not going to gain you much. You need to be able to advance timing. When someone in the N/A world grows some ***** and stops listening to the next guy who says it cant be done.. Lemme know!
As you see TCpete did 195, he didint get there from everyone saying it cant be done. I highly doubt the op will go on with this because scionlife usually takes the fun out of it for everyone and says it cant be done!
If i wasint so far into my F/I build i would do a NA build. You think the all motor hondas running 11's are not advancing the timing? LOL. There on q16 race gas with double the timing we run OEM!
Grow some ***** step up! Prove SL WRONG
</RANT>
IMO, you want 200whp..
Do this:
A Good Cold air intake
Long tube headers
good 2.5 exhaust
Greddy emanage Ult
93 octane gas
AEM Water/Meth kit
BC stage 3 cams
Ported head
high comp pistons.
With this setup you should be able to hit the 225-250 WHP mark.
IMO putting a aem fic on a na car is pointless, The only benfit of this would be to smooth fuel map. Not going to gain you much. You need to be able to advance timing. When someone in the N/A world grows some ***** and stops listening to the next guy who says it cant be done.. Lemme know!
As you see TCpete did 195, he didint get there from everyone saying it cant be done. I highly doubt the op will go on with this because scionlife usually takes the fun out of it for everyone and says it cant be done!
If i wasint so far into my F/I build i would do a NA build. You think the all motor hondas running 11's are not advancing the timing? LOL. There on q16 race gas with double the timing we run OEM!
Grow some ***** step up! Prove SL WRONG
</RANT>
Might just have to go for it. G/F is in the way.
Everything for the car will be done, so motorwork will be next. But it'll take me some time or maybe I'll boost.
I'll probably go AEM or something. Unichip is a inconvenience. Blah. Negative Nancy's and Debbie Downers for sure.
12-09-2009, 12:21 AM
#59
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Yeah... you make a good point pete.. eventually I will be boosting the car so The Cams are the only "N/A" only mod I will be looking into. I have been told I would be able to see a dyno of the cams in action... but still nothing and that was 2 weeks ago. I just want to be able to post up a series of dynos so that people that are going NA have something to look at... towards.. etc. I have been diggin your build for the longest I just dont have the money to do a full build for NA and then turn around and re-build for boost.. so I am picking things that can be used "for the most part" on either platform so that once I have gotten some fun times out of the NA setup I can then boost.. and smile as I ppppssssshhhhhhhhhh on people.
