OK now we are getting boost, what about these gizmos ?
06-03-2005, 02:01 AM
#1
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OK now we are getting boost, what about these gizmos ?
http://www.urs4.com/technical/engine...ntrollers.html
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_support_evo.htm
OK I hate to do this as I’ve been into diesels and LS1 since my turbo Integra got ripped off in 97 and now with these new turbo kits out I have to look into things like: boost control, knock sensor, external gate control, wide band 02, and emanage.
OK now I think we should start with emanage, what is it how do you tune it and what other stuff do I need hmm, I wonder if ZPI is going to supply me with the software to play with this:
http://www.300zxstore.com/grempibafuco.html
Notice no knock sensor input… not good IMO.
http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_support_evo.htm
OK I hate to do this as I’ve been into diesels and LS1 since my turbo Integra got ripped off in 97 and now with these new turbo kits out I have to look into things like: boost control, knock sensor, external gate control, wide band 02, and emanage.
OK now I think we should start with emanage, what is it how do you tune it and what other stuff do I need hmm, I wonder if ZPI is going to supply me with the software to play with this:
http://www.300zxstore.com/grempibafuco.html
Notice no knock sensor input… not good IMO.
06-03-2005, 02:13 AM
#2
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Bleh on teh E-manage. Piggybacks are for toddlers. Standalone.. yah they are expensive, the one i am saving up for to run my boost is 4.5k according to my mechanic, but well worth it. If yah don't got that kinda cash, E-manage is the way to go. I gotta say its the best piggy back out there, especially since it controls ignition timing +/- 20%.
06-03-2005, 02:28 AM
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Jamasco:
Its from japan, I'm not sure of the brand. I do know my mechanic needs to fabricate the wiring harness to the 2az though. My mechanic is currently doing a blacktop swap on an old datsun roadster. Once he told me the price of the computer i quit asking about it and started saving. Not a big thing, since a carb numbered turbo kit isn't in the near future so i have time to save. I won't have the cash for the computer til late next year since i am also purchasing internals for the 2az, and i will be going e-manage until i have the cash. My mechanic told me HKS has a standalone he can use on the 2az though.
Its from japan, I'm not sure of the brand. I do know my mechanic needs to fabricate the wiring harness to the 2az though. My mechanic is currently doing a blacktop swap on an old datsun roadster. Once he told me the price of the computer i quit asking about it and started saving. Not a big thing, since a carb numbered turbo kit isn't in the near future so i have time to save. I won't have the cash for the computer til late next year since i am also purchasing internals for the 2az, and i will be going e-manage until i have the cash. My mechanic told me HKS has a standalone he can use on the 2az though.
06-03-2005, 02:33 AM
#7
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My mechanic is an immigrant from japan, best engine guy in central cali imo. d00d blue my mind when i first talked to him about tuning the 2az. He was stumped at first since i told him about the tC being a USDM vehicle, then I elaborated and said it was using a 2az powerplant and then he smiled 
He isn't at the shop at the moment but I'll give him a call and get the info you guys want.
He isn't at the shop at the moment but I'll give him a call and get the info you guys want.
06-03-2005, 02:41 AM
#8
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TimmyT,
Even if the standalone is from Japan, I highly doubt that it is worth the price. You can get very good standalones for a fraction of the cost and they probably have more features than you will ever use. I'm not trying to discourage you, but your money might be better spent elsewhere than 4,500 for the standalone.
BTW, our kits are CARB Pending. Did I forget to mention that? It does take time to complete though.
Even if the standalone is from Japan, I highly doubt that it is worth the price. You can get very good standalones for a fraction of the cost and they probably have more features than you will ever use. I'm not trying to discourage you, but your money might be better spent elsewhere than 4,500 for the standalone.
BTW, our kits are CARB Pending. Did I forget to mention that? It does take time to complete though.
06-03-2005, 02:44 AM
#9
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Sweet! being a retiree the thought intrigues me hehe The standalone can be adjusted on the go via laptop/software to change fuel mappings etc based on altitude,weather etc. in moments.
hehe The standalone can be adjusted on the go via laptop/software to change fuel mappings etc based on altitude,weather etc. in moments.
06-03-2005, 02:47 AM
#10
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As far as piggy back I would say emanage
Boost controller go with the Profec B, it works well it emanage, and emanage can control it (at least in the SRT world)
Widebands are always a good investment, and a smart one.
turbo Timers are good for people who dont like to wait with their cars running to give a chance for the turbo to cool
On top of that you need the supporting mods, fuel systems, exhaust, good set of motor mounts cause all powerful FWD cars inevitably wheelhop, possibly urethane bushings for upper and lower front control arms, an LSD....... the list is long!!!!
Boost controller go with the Profec B, it works well it emanage, and emanage can control it (at least in the SRT world)
Widebands are always a good investment, and a smart one.
turbo Timers are good for people who dont like to wait with their cars running to give a chance for the turbo to cool
On top of that you need the supporting mods, fuel systems, exhaust, good set of motor mounts cause all powerful FWD cars inevitably wheelhop, possibly urethane bushings for upper and lower front control arms, an LSD....... the list is long!!!!
06-03-2005, 02:57 AM
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Someone is getting ripped off...4.5k 
I'd do AEM if I had to go with a standalone again. Not only it has a vast ammount of features, but with the right tuner you can get your car diled in perfect for every single mod you have. It is a _____ to tune but once it is done by the best it is awesome.
To tell you the truth I would start with different engine if you have $4500 to invest just in an ECU. Just does not sound like a logical move to spend that much $ on a car that cheap.
I'd do AEM if I had to go with a standalone again. Not only it has a vast ammount of features, but with the right tuner you can get your car diled in perfect for every single mod you have. It is a _____ to tune but once it is done by the best it is awesome.
To tell you the truth I would start with different engine if you have $4500 to invest just in an ECU. Just does not sound like a logical move to spend that much $ on a car that cheap.
06-03-2005, 03:03 AM
#12
Well... Stage 0 buyers... I'd be hesitant to play with your boost.
If you do plan on playing with it.. I'd get the emanage software, plug your laptop into it, and go take it for some test drives and tune it while you adjust your boost.
Just play it safe... Dont be the first one to blow your motor
If you do plan on playing with it.. I'd get the emanage software, plug your laptop into it, and go take it for some test drives and tune it while you adjust your boost.
Just play it safe... Dont be the first one to blow your motor
06-03-2005, 03:10 AM
#13
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$4,500?? I know of a few stand alones from japan, and they are in the range of $3,200 shipped. You're majorly getting ripped off. I'd double check and make sure you know what your getting. You don't even know the company name?? Common man, don't spend that much without knowing exactly what you are buying.
06-03-2005, 03:30 AM
#14
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Boost controller go with the Profec B, I heard that this has 3 maps and works with Emanage but don't know how. ESP, patch able? anyway how much is the Profec B? Is ZPI going to give us software or is this an extra charger?
http://www.300zxstore.com/greprelboco.html
found it.
http://www.300zxstore.com/greprelboco.html
found it.
06-03-2005, 03:54 AM
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Ok... Having run multiple systems on multiple cars here's my input...
First off is the knock sensor... It's a good thing to have if you plan on not blowing your head gasket, but at the lower boost levels I don't see it being necessary, especially from the 6psi kit. Our cars stock have a knock sensor and will retard ignition timing if it needs to, to prevent head issues.
Second... The fuel computers... The Camcon is a great unit for basic fuel tuning and can truly work on it's own, without the need of laptop. For those of us fortunate enough to have a laptop available for fuel tuning, welcome to adjustments galore.
The Emanage is a geat unit. Wiring it and the initial settings are a big pain, but it works excellent when it's done. You can adjust almost as much as a stand-alone, but with the cost of a piggy back. I installed one on my turbo 2002 Civic. You can buy extra goodies to get more out of the unit if you want. One is the injector harness. With this harness you can control injector pulse, adjust duty cycle, injector size, and run an injector correction system to help with a smooth idle. The available ignition harness will allow you to advance or retard ignition timing to get a faster spool up without risking a blown motor. The pressure sensor and pressure sensor harness is a must if you aren't buying the Profec E01 (I'll get into that later). It allows you to tune by boost. Basically, with the base harness, it tunes fuel percentages by your rpm, and throttle position. It's great and all, but what if your turbo isn't fully spooled (which could change under various load) and you're running it pig-rich to have the fuel need for boost. You could actually tune the fuel maps by rpm, and by how much boost you're making so you get a stable fuel map with no bucking, driving like a stock turbo'd car. The last but not least is the support tool. The support tool allows you to interact with a Laptop or any USB based computer for highly advanced adjustments and parameter settings. If you do not have this (Goes for about $125) you have virtually zero adjustment capabilities. The Emanage only has 5 rotary fuel adjustments, set at default rpm levels and nothning more. It's a horrible way to tune your car and is highly inaccurate; buy the support tool. The Profec is another way to tune, so look for it farther down in this write up...
Option 2: The Universal AEM EMS (Engine Management System)...
This is by far the best bang for the buck standalone ECUs you can buy. It supports virtually anything and gives you the best options money can ask for. It supports the AEM EUGO wide-band o2 system, for accurate fuel tuning and recording. It has built in boost control (no more need for a digital boost controller!). The boost controller can be configured to have different boost levels in different gears. A must for us FWD racers. This will limit wheel spin and allow for a driveable daily driver. Another great feature for safe, consistent, and reliable launches is the built in 2-stage rev limiter. With the clutch depressed, you can sit at 3.5K RPM and make full boost. Dump the clutch and it opens the rev-limiter up to what -ever the specified rev limit is. You can adjust both so do so responsibly! We don't need blown motors on our hands! The AEM can do much more... It has knock control, nitrous control, 7 switch inputs (perfect for shift light, water injection, etc...), nitrous control, idle control, and 4 EGT inputs. It even has traction control, but with the universal version, I'm not sure how well that will work. To get even more power and adjustability, feel free to add the C2DI system. It's basically a digital ignition system that supports our cars and gives maximum available power.
For built motors, or possible build-ups in the future, the AEM is fool* (thanks oldman haha) proof. It's been proven to handle high-hp drag cars (the 7 sec AEM civic), and is reliable enough for everyday use. The all included features is a must, and their service is much better than Greddy's tech service. The price for the UNIVERSAL EMS is about 1200-1400. It for the moment, can only be purchased at authorized AEM dealers that are certified to install it. It's such an extensive install it's not available on the open market. The C2DI should be about $300.
First off is the knock sensor... It's a good thing to have if you plan on not blowing your head gasket, but at the lower boost levels I don't see it being necessary, especially from the 6psi kit. Our cars stock have a knock sensor and will retard ignition timing if it needs to, to prevent head issues.
Second... The fuel computers... The Camcon is a great unit for basic fuel tuning and can truly work on it's own, without the need of laptop. For those of us fortunate enough to have a laptop available for fuel tuning, welcome to adjustments galore.
The Emanage is a geat unit. Wiring it and the initial settings are a big pain, but it works excellent when it's done. You can adjust almost as much as a stand-alone, but with the cost of a piggy back. I installed one on my turbo 2002 Civic. You can buy extra goodies to get more out of the unit if you want. One is the injector harness. With this harness you can control injector pulse, adjust duty cycle, injector size, and run an injector correction system to help with a smooth idle. The available ignition harness will allow you to advance or retard ignition timing to get a faster spool up without risking a blown motor. The pressure sensor and pressure sensor harness is a must if you aren't buying the Profec E01 (I'll get into that later). It allows you to tune by boost. Basically, with the base harness, it tunes fuel percentages by your rpm, and throttle position. It's great and all, but what if your turbo isn't fully spooled (which could change under various load) and you're running it pig-rich to have the fuel need for boost. You could actually tune the fuel maps by rpm, and by how much boost you're making so you get a stable fuel map with no bucking, driving like a stock turbo'd car. The last but not least is the support tool. The support tool allows you to interact with a Laptop or any USB based computer for highly advanced adjustments and parameter settings. If you do not have this (Goes for about $125) you have virtually zero adjustment capabilities. The Emanage only has 5 rotary fuel adjustments, set at default rpm levels and nothning more. It's a horrible way to tune your car and is highly inaccurate; buy the support tool. The Profec is another way to tune, so look for it farther down in this write up...
Option 2: The Universal AEM EMS (Engine Management System)...
This is by far the best bang for the buck standalone ECUs you can buy. It supports virtually anything and gives you the best options money can ask for. It supports the AEM EUGO wide-band o2 system, for accurate fuel tuning and recording. It has built in boost control (no more need for a digital boost controller!). The boost controller can be configured to have different boost levels in different gears. A must for us FWD racers. This will limit wheel spin and allow for a driveable daily driver. Another great feature for safe, consistent, and reliable launches is the built in 2-stage rev limiter. With the clutch depressed, you can sit at 3.5K RPM and make full boost. Dump the clutch and it opens the rev-limiter up to what -ever the specified rev limit is. You can adjust both so do so responsibly! We don't need blown motors on our hands! The AEM can do much more... It has knock control, nitrous control, 7 switch inputs (perfect for shift light, water injection, etc...), nitrous control, idle control, and 4 EGT inputs. It even has traction control, but with the universal version, I'm not sure how well that will work. To get even more power and adjustability, feel free to add the C2DI system. It's basically a digital ignition system that supports our cars and gives maximum available power.
For built motors, or possible build-ups in the future, the AEM is fool* (thanks oldman haha) proof. It's been proven to handle high-hp drag cars (the 7 sec AEM civic), and is reliable enough for everyday use. The all included features is a must, and their service is much better than Greddy's tech service. The price for the UNIVERSAL EMS is about 1200-1400. It for the moment, can only be purchased at authorized AEM dealers that are certified to install it. It's such an extensive install it's not available on the open market. The C2DI should be about $300.
06-03-2005, 04:04 AM
#17
Great info Joe.. I know the ZPI kits will have the emanage pre-tuned and pre-wired so it should be a very simple installation.. I know the install on the Emanage could get a little tricky.. especially when their installation instructions were wrong! lol.
06-03-2005, 04:05 AM
#18
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Boost controllers:
Greddy Profec E01. This is the best unit to compliment your Emanage. It is not only a digital boost controller with a high contrast screen (great for sunlight) but it works as part of the Emanage system. It can control almost all of the features (fuel and ignition adjustment is more limited) and is constantly connected. It acts as a datalogger as well for a track run so you know how everything was running. By it having a pressure sensor included, you do not need to buy a pressure sensor for your emanage. It can connect to the emanage where it will base it's fuel maps off the psi readings of the Profec-E01. Very capable unit, also one of the most expensive.
Profec B - One of the easiest units to tune and one of the most common. This is the best bang for the buck controller you can buy on the market. Simple, nice screen, and Japanese! It does support internal and external wastegates without a hiccup, inluding Tial Ex. Wastegates. All electronic, and a fast enough response to virtually eliminate any spikes, and help to lower lag.
BLITZ SBC Spec-S, Single solenoid:
I ran this unit on my Turbo civic, my Evo, and installed it on 2 DSMs. I personally love it. It is somewhat finicky and the scramble boost is not good for cars like ours but... It has a 4 stage boost controll system, all adjusted by the twist of one of the 2 *****. For example (what I did)... Stage1 - Rain, Stage 2 - Daily driver, Stage3 - Spirited driving, Stage4 - Race track. It has excellent control and produces nearly indentical numbers each time you switch the unit back and forth. The only drawback, it's HORRIBLE for Tial External wastegates. For some reason, and my company has spoken to Blitz about this, the Blitz boost controllers do not work well with US made external wastegates, even though there's a switch in the back for it. It'll work great with all internal waste-gates, and Japanese externals (Blitz, HKS, Apexi).
Apexi AVC-R... You don't need it! Too many people complain of spikes which is a problem with cars that come without a turbo stock. For a higher price than the Greddy Profec E01, it's just not worth it. For thr $500 setup, buy a Profec E01, hook it up to an emanage and keep it simple.
Hopefully these 2 write-ups help people make their decisions. If there are more questions post up and I'll answer them to the best of my knowledge!
-Joe
Greddy Profec E01. This is the best unit to compliment your Emanage. It is not only a digital boost controller with a high contrast screen (great for sunlight) but it works as part of the Emanage system. It can control almost all of the features (fuel and ignition adjustment is more limited) and is constantly connected. It acts as a datalogger as well for a track run so you know how everything was running. By it having a pressure sensor included, you do not need to buy a pressure sensor for your emanage. It can connect to the emanage where it will base it's fuel maps off the psi readings of the Profec-E01. Very capable unit, also one of the most expensive.
Profec B - One of the easiest units to tune and one of the most common. This is the best bang for the buck controller you can buy on the market. Simple, nice screen, and Japanese! It does support internal and external wastegates without a hiccup, inluding Tial Ex. Wastegates. All electronic, and a fast enough response to virtually eliminate any spikes, and help to lower lag.
BLITZ SBC Spec-S, Single solenoid:
I ran this unit on my Turbo civic, my Evo, and installed it on 2 DSMs. I personally love it. It is somewhat finicky and the scramble boost is not good for cars like ours but... It has a 4 stage boost controll system, all adjusted by the twist of one of the 2 *****. For example (what I did)... Stage1 - Rain, Stage 2 - Daily driver, Stage3 - Spirited driving, Stage4 - Race track. It has excellent control and produces nearly indentical numbers each time you switch the unit back and forth. The only drawback, it's HORRIBLE for Tial External wastegates. For some reason, and my company has spoken to Blitz about this, the Blitz boost controllers do not work well with US made external wastegates, even though there's a switch in the back for it. It'll work great with all internal waste-gates, and Japanese externals (Blitz, HKS, Apexi).
Apexi AVC-R... You don't need it! Too many people complain of spikes which is a problem with cars that come without a turbo stock. For a higher price than the Greddy Profec E01, it's just not worth it. For thr $500 setup, buy a Profec E01, hook it up to an emanage and keep it simple.
Hopefully these 2 write-ups help people make their decisions. If there are more questions post up and I'll answer them to the best of my knowledge!
-Joe
06-03-2005, 04:07 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by oldman
"AEM is fuel proof" 
thanks for the info. what if I want to play with knock retard, can AEM take this signal?
You are promoted gizmo god...
thanks for the info. what if I want to play with knock retard, can AEM take this signal?
You are promoted gizmo god...
I'll fix my typo, even though it kinda works haha... Thanks...