BeetC

I've been going around and around trying to decide on an intake system. Originally I wanted the Injen Cold-air, but I learn that the WR makes more power. Now I learn that the tC loses torque on the bottom end (as I expected) but it loses about 8-11 lb-ft! So Here's my problem...I don't want to lose very much bottom end with this mod. I'm willing to give up about 5 lb-ft. but that's it. Then again, maybe the bottom end loss with the WR isn't as bad as I've heard. Here's what I'm thinking about:

1) TRD or K&N drop-in panel filter

2) MAF adapter pipe and K&N universal cone filter

3) WR Secret Weapon intake system


Opinions? Which one should I go with? Anyone with experience with the WR and torque loss?

ack154

iTrader: (7)

Even if those loss numbers are right... you wouldn't notice. You might think you will, but you won't.

You won't notice any gains with a drop in filter. At all. The adapter and K&N... I don't know - maybe a tiny bit.

TurboCustomz

I've used the K & N cold air intake and saw no results. Sounded good though. I really dont have experience with the rest.

Charles

BeetC

8-11 lb-ft in the bottom rpm range (2000-3000) is a big hit. Coming from a small displacement car that had almost no low-end torque, I love the tC's low end grunt. I don't want this car to turn into one with a high-RPM oriented powerband...I guess I just grew out of that.

BeetC

Just to elaborate more...I'm not as interested in gaining the maximum amount of power. I'm more interested in gaining power while minimizing the loss of torque, especially in the 2000-4000 rpm range, before the VVTi kicks over.

Kenshin

8 hp loss in low end torque? I wanna see a dyno sheet. 5hp is nothing, you dont feel it, you might imagine you feel it, but it isnt there. The only time you feel something is if you drive your car stock for a month, then in one day install I/H/E get a bumble bee fart can car and gain about 16hp then you might feel a bit, though it might be your ears lying to you from all that noise.... sorry, but just make or get any intake, hell even ebay has knock off intakes that DO THE SAME crap as the super secret weapon r intake. You wanna feel a difference? Boost or juice the car.

Kenshin

OK again your confusing the tc with a honda vtec system, the vvti is always changing the timing continuously, unlike a civic si or a prelude where you have to rev it past 5k to feel the vtec kick in.

BeetC

Dyno charts all around show a significant timing advance past 4000 rpm. I never said it was like VTEC.

As for this dyno sheet you want to see...



This is a graph taken right from Weapon-R's website. Click me for the actual page Notice almost 10 lb-ft loss in torque (graph on the right) at 2000 and significant losses until about 3800...at which point the VVTi advances timing significantly for the run up to redline.

Also notice the same on the HP graph...significant gains after about 4000 rpm.

As I was saying, these intakes claim big gains at the top end of the rev range (witness the crosshairs where peak gains were made). I'm interested in an intake that will minimize the loss down low.

Kenshin

Hmm interesting, that is a pretty big loss for just adding a tube with a filter. I felt no loss whatsoever when I MADE my intake.

http://www.dsmtunage.com/movies/Scio...ke%20Sound.avi

BeetC

Sounds nice man...do you have a link to how you made it? If you had no loss in low-end torque, it's what I'm after. BTW, any clearance issues with the intake piping?

Kenshin

Naw no issues what so ever, it is made from the L pipe from a Mustang GT, the middle section with the MAF flange from a Corolla with VVTI, it had a hole which I capped off using black caps from autozone, sounds very nice IMO and cost real cheap hehe. I had to mod the corolla pipe because it was too long, just a normal hacksaw, worked like a charm.

BeetC

Nice. thanks for the advice man, Maybe I'll try that out. I saw a MAF adapter at a parts stor that I think that I can use.

Jarrod123

i will be selling my weapon r intake at a decent price if you are interested. I have been playing around with the weaponr, injen, and stock intake. the weapon r seems to pull more in the high rpms however there is noticeable power loss in the low end. the injen sram does not seem to have a noticeable low end loss, however i dont know if pulls as strong in the high rpms. I have noticed a difference of power with both intakes compared to stock. also with an intake your exhaust is louder and i like that. when i was switched back to stock for a little while i felt like i was driving a family car or something.
if you look in the posts there is a post about the weapon r intake with a different dyno that show a greater disparity with the low end horse power.

400amonth

I agree low end hp/torque loss can seem to wash top gain. I also think it gets worse when you add a header or remove the cat which happens on most TC's with S-pipe back systems and headers. Here is a chart of the K&N CAI. It seems to have to shortest loss span.




NOW INJEN does not show a Scion TC chart but look at a CAI Celica and you see loss till 4000 RPMS



The Weapon-R on the TC again:

BeetC

Actually Injen does have a graph for the tC...it's hella small though... If anything I'm going to try the MAF adapter and filter then the Injen.

400amonth

Well I just wanted to add that my car has a K&N CAI, AW header and custom straight mid and TRD exhaust and it dynos 156 hp and 160 torque to the ground. Pretty nice gains but It feels like make less power than stock at 2500 RPM (that low end grunt so to speak) but hey I can chirp 3rd real easy now

BeetC

Ok update: I did the MAF adapter and universal filter. It's a little softer now from 1000-2000, and picked up a little from 5500-redline. Sounds aggressive too. I also decided to leave the bottom of the stock intake box in; there's that small intake pipe from the fender area that I thought might help. All in all, not too bad...should hold me over until I get the Injen in a month or so...

Acsilva84

Beetc...

looks nice!