TimmyT

My argument isn't about wich is the better slip differential. It is about someone detering another person from buying a product, yes in "What if" world lots of things Can happen. I am basing my argument on why the phantom girp LSD is a viable option on the fact that it is in the 12 second scion speed tC. and as far as I know they haven't had any problems with the LSD. AND that is in a 12 second tC, wich on a normal daily driver, even slightly modded to maybe 200 whp, I wouldn't say "Don't go buy phantom grip, spend more on the quafie" when they really don't need it.

raamaudio

Timmy,

We are on the same page here buddy Internet rummors and inuendos do not replace cold hard facts which are always lacking when the subject of the PG comes up as a viable and affordable LSD option.

I would be the first to want to know if there is indeed a problem as wel are spending alot of time and money on our project car and want the best results possible from our investment. If proven to be unreliable I would use another product but so far, in three years of using them I have only had the already mentioned shop that really had any issues and again, a massively powered cars which we will never see.

Glad you get it

Rick

kungpaosamuraiii

This reminds me of the fact that by all physical and electrical logic and reasoning a grounding kit SHOULD help but really sorta kind of doesn't.

lo_bux_racer

Any technical decision has to meet the hard test of real world economics. For example, pure silver is the best known electrical conductor short of super conductors. Does it make economic sense to replace all your wires with pure silver wires? No, copper is a much more economical solution for small gauge wiring.

Notice in the real world of electrical supply, they manufacture and sell aluminum wire. Why? Because, despite aluminum's lesser electrical qualities, if the conductor is big enough, it's a lot cheaper to wire with very large aluminum conductors than the equivalent copper conductors. Ask any electrician. There are millions of miles of aluminum wiring in houses and industry around the globe because it's cost effective.

I will never say that it is impossible to improve on the OEM grounding system. I will say there is no significant performance benefit to changing the grounding system. There is a caveat to this: if the car is 10 or more years old, and has suffered corrosion, then there may be a benefit to revisiting the wiring harness and ensuring the existing ground (and power) wires are both in good shape and have clean connections.

The same holds true for the Phantom Grip. It does what the manufacturer claims. There are no documented failures short of the ones Rick mentioned. It's very cost effective. It isn't a gear type limited slip like a Torsen or Quaife, it isn't a clutch type like so many "Posi-Traction" style spools, but it offers an economical solution to the problem. It's up to the individual's pocket book to decide what they can afford. OEMs use Quaife and Torsen because they have been proven to last well over 200k miles in OEM service. They will tend to go with proven solutions because they don't even want to consider warranty failures in a gearbox.

raamaudio

Thanks Lance, I was hoping you would participate in this debate. I really do want to know if there are serious issues with the units but none have come up other than what has been mentioned here already. All I ever hear, up to two weeks ago, were just rumors, sometimes I wonder where such rumors start from, what is the true source?

When I took my Matrix, after thousands of dollars and reworking it so many ways to get ever last ounce of performance out of it, had plenty of power but no traction, the PG that was custom built for my needs took the car from a mid pack to within 1/00th of a second out of second place at several events. This was in So Cal SCCA SM autocross where I had AWDs like Audi(really killed them) WRX, my real competition, and M3's, I did beat a couple but an 8 time national champ in my class was so very fast, same car for 10 years, had it so dialed in and of course an incredible driver, much better than I am. Still, on a really fast and long course, like 8 seconds I got to within 1.5 seconds of his time. In a Matrix!!! And I had so much to learn about driving FWD, my brakes were way to grabby to left foot let alone threshold brake and the car was still not dialed in well. I never corner weighed it or checked the roll center, just never go that far. ( I did drop it down all the way on the coilovers once, really handled terribly so I know it was to low)

Anyway, PG took great care of me, they did not have a unit for my car at first, I sent them my diff from CA to FL and it was back in 5 days with a custom unit. Then I added race tires, more boost, went beyond what it was setup for. I shipped the diff back on a Monday, got it on Thursday, On sunday went from midpack to nearly 2nd place with a car with too much boost and terribly grabby brakes. They did not charge me to mod the unit to fit my new power level and slicks all around.

When I bought the tC they did not have a unit for it yet but got a car a diff in and figured it out, sent me a unit to install myself within two weeks.

John and Janice are insanely busy but incredibly nice people that will do all they can to help us out, until proven otherwise, they will always have my utmost loyalty.

That is why I stand up for them, proven to me their product works, bent over backwords to take care of me, are really great people, produce something for those with limited budgets a way to dramatically improve their cars affordably, what more can I say.

Rick

TimmyT

alright.. but where the hell is quafie at anyway? Any news about pricing.. or release.. or if they are even doing it anymore?

DynomyteSW

so lance even if the quife is more money would it still be a viable daily driver mod ok for use on a modded tc? or is it worthless... at what hp rating would a mod like this be deemed necessary?

lo_bux_racer

If you are not concerned about the cost, it's an ideal daily driver mod. The reliability has been proven in thousands of cars over many years with literally millions of miles of successful operation. The only negative about any Torsen or gear type LSD is when one wheel completely loses traction. I don't know if the Phantom Grip addresses this, but since it is a friction type device, I suspect it would deal with a wheel in the air better than any of the gear types. Supra drivers have replaced their Torsen units with a clutch type LSD for autocross just for this reason.

I'm on the fence about this myself. I really want some kind of LSD, but I don't know if I want to spend a grand for a Quaife or not. If I take the gearbox apart, I want it to be a one time thing, and from that perspective the Quaife is very appealing. PG may require some adjustment with different springs to make it work better, and since no one is running a PG yet, the tuning isn't done. I don't know. I guess I'll have to get ____ed off enough about not having it to do something at some point. That's probably when I'll decide which way to go.

TimmyT

The phantomgrip LSD for the tC comes with the x-treme upgrade and costs $350.00. happy shopping

http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_l...hp?make=Toyota

Gambit7

Why no auto LSD?

TimmyT

Well I e-mailed quaife, hopefully I will get a response. Weather it be good news, or bad news. If it is the latter at least i can move on and buy the phantomgrip LSD.