Taller 5th gear for the tC? Does one exist?
08-26-2006, 12:42 AM
#1
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Taller 5th gear for the tC? Does one exist?
I have owned my tC for about 5 months and the only complaint that I have is that its plainly obvious that Toyota put a short 5th gear or left out a 6th gear on purpose so that the tC's gas mileage would be garbage compared to the xB and xA on the highway.
The car has plenty of torque to pull a tall 5th gear so that you could cruise on the highway @ 85mph @ like 2500-3000rpm's but nooooooooooo its gotta be pushing 4,000rpm's @ 85-90mph which is complete crap.
Does any aftermarket company make a taller 5th gear that can be installed so that I can get some decent mpg's driving this thing? I wish it were as easy as american RWD cars because then it would just be a matter of changing the rear end gear to something smaller.
The car has plenty of torque to pull a tall 5th gear so that you could cruise on the highway @ 85mph @ like 2500-3000rpm's but nooooooooooo its gotta be pushing 4,000rpm's @ 85-90mph which is complete crap.
Does any aftermarket company make a taller 5th gear that can be installed so that I can get some decent mpg's driving this thing? I wish it were as easy as american RWD cars because then it would just be a matter of changing the rear end gear to something smaller.
08-26-2006, 01:07 AM
#3
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ok so at least im not the only person who realizes that Toyota really screwed us on gas mileage when they could have given us great gas mileage @ no cost to performance for the most part?
what a buncha... man...
I average 25mpg when I could be averaging at least 30mpg... I dont think 30mpg is too much to ask these days.
what a buncha... man...
I average 25mpg when I could be averaging at least 30mpg... I dont think 30mpg is too much to ask these days.
08-26-2006, 01:18 AM
#5
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No, they couldnt give us that without costs. You cant just put in a taller 5th gear and call it good. They you have a terrible gap between gears. You have to understand how gearing works together. You have to change everything else in the right proportions to make a smooth transition between gears.
And I kinda doubt they said "hmmm lets be mean and ruin thier mileage".. they designed the car to get the most out of the cars power. They wanted it to accelerate hard with the power it has, which is why the gearing is set up the way it is. If they would have made it with taller gears, everyone would say "man this car accellerates weak!! like a camry!"
There was a sticker on the car that told you what the cars mileage was. Besides a few with some wierd issues, most everyone I have see is hitting those numbers. With my 5 spd I run 29 - 30 on long road trips with the cruise set at 80 and the air on. Wow.. right there with what they said on that sticker.. the one with the giant black epa estimates on it. I get about 21 in town. My overall average over about 6 months of driving (half summer, half winter) last year was 24 mpg. Right what you should expect if you read the sticker. Sorry, but I dont feel sorry when someone has the info right in front of thier face when shopping, buys the car and then complains they were "Screwed" by toyota. The car does exactly what they advertised. If mileage was your concern.. there were plenty of other cars. They targeted this car in different areas than saving a whole $6-7 a week on gas at the cost of less accelleration.
And I kinda doubt they said "hmmm lets be mean and ruin thier mileage".. they designed the car to get the most out of the cars power. They wanted it to accelerate hard with the power it has, which is why the gearing is set up the way it is. If they would have made it with taller gears, everyone would say "man this car accellerates weak!! like a camry!"
There was a sticker on the car that told you what the cars mileage was. Besides a few with some wierd issues, most everyone I have see is hitting those numbers. With my 5 spd I run 29 - 30 on long road trips with the cruise set at 80 and the air on. Wow.. right there with what they said on that sticker.. the one with the giant black epa estimates on it. I get about 21 in town. My overall average over about 6 months of driving (half summer, half winter) last year was 24 mpg. Right what you should expect if you read the sticker. Sorry, but I dont feel sorry when someone has the info right in front of thier face when shopping, buys the car and then complains they were "Screwed" by toyota. The car does exactly what they advertised. If mileage was your concern.. there were plenty of other cars. They targeted this car in different areas than saving a whole $6-7 a week on gas at the cost of less accelleration.
08-26-2006, 06:22 AM
#7
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Taller 5th... 5th is a dog anyways... that would make it lame lame lame to drive in 4th and 5th, the two worst gears on the tC anyways.
The 6 speed conversion ZPI is working on is your best bet eventually.... but a 6 speed economical and reasonably priced tC from the factory... that's dreaming... The car gets great mileage compared to other sport compact and runs 29MPG no problem...
The 6 speed conversion ZPI is working on is your best bet eventually.... but a 6 speed economical and reasonably priced tC from the factory... that's dreaming... The car gets great mileage compared to other sport compact and runs 29MPG no problem...
08-26-2006, 12:51 PM
#9
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It could be much worse, they could have put one of those "CVT" transmissions in it. It doesn't have gears, it's belt driven! There is no shifting to it, it just goes. It's a weird feeling no shifting as you drive. I took a test drive in a Caliber, just so I could see what the transmission was like. It blows!
08-28-2006, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by engifineer
No, they couldnt give us that without costs. You cant just put in a taller 5th gear and call it good. They you have a terrible gap between gears. You have to understand how gearing works together. You have to change everything else in the right proportions to make a smooth transition between gears.
And I kinda doubt they said "hmmm lets be mean and ruin thier mileage".. they designed the car to get the most out of the cars power. They wanted it to accelerate hard with the power it has, which is why the gearing is set up the way it is. If they would have made it with taller gears, everyone would say "man this car accellerates weak!! like a camry!"
There was a sticker on the car that told you what the cars mileage was. Besides a few with some wierd issues, most everyone I have see is hitting those numbers. With my 5 spd I run 29 - 30 on long road trips with the cruise set at 80 and the air on. Wow.. right there with what they said on that sticker.. the one with the giant black epa estimates on it. I get about 21 in town. My overall average over about 6 months of driving (half summer, half winter) last year was 24 mpg. Right what you should expect if you read the sticker. Sorry, but I dont feel sorry when someone has the info right in front of thier face when shopping, buys the car and then complains they were "Screwed" by toyota. The car does exactly what they advertised. If mileage was your concern.. there were plenty of other cars. They targeted this car in different areas than saving a whole $6-7 a week on gas at the cost of less accelleration.
And I kinda doubt they said "hmmm lets be mean and ruin thier mileage".. they designed the car to get the most out of the cars power. They wanted it to accelerate hard with the power it has, which is why the gearing is set up the way it is. If they would have made it with taller gears, everyone would say "man this car accellerates weak!! like a camry!"
There was a sticker on the car that told you what the cars mileage was. Besides a few with some wierd issues, most everyone I have see is hitting those numbers. With my 5 spd I run 29 - 30 on long road trips with the cruise set at 80 and the air on. Wow.. right there with what they said on that sticker.. the one with the giant black epa estimates on it. I get about 21 in town. My overall average over about 6 months of driving (half summer, half winter) last year was 24 mpg. Right what you should expect if you read the sticker. Sorry, but I dont feel sorry when someone has the info right in front of thier face when shopping, buys the car and then complains they were "Screwed" by toyota. The car does exactly what they advertised. If mileage was your concern.. there were plenty of other cars. They targeted this car in different areas than saving a whole $6-7 a week on gas at the cost of less accelleration.
You used the example that the car was optimized for the power that it has. Well I dont think it was at all. The first gear is so short that you have to have an extremely steady foot on the gas otherwise the car jerks all over the place until your in second gear. Secondly... how many four cylinder vehicles have you driven that can be started from a dead stop in 2nd gear without really having to abuse the clutch that much? Yep, the tC does that too. Isnt that a clue that all five gears should be a few notches taller. The 2nd gear in the tC is only slightly taller than most car's first gears and so on and so forth with the 3rd through 5th.
If you think that Toyota wasnt 100% conscious of what they were doing when they picked the gear ratios your naive. Why do you think we didnt get the TurboDiesel xB like they have in Japan? The reason is because Toyota would never give us a vehicle with mileage that slaughters their expensive hybrid's. Not until they recoup the money they spent developing hybrid technology that is.
Likewise, theres no way they'd sell a tC for $16,500 that performs decently and gets 33-35mpg also, which is what kind of mileage we'd be getting if we had a taller set of gears. Especially since that vehicle would rob sales from the Yaris, Corolla, and xA.
In conclusion... keep up the Toyota nut swingin
08-28-2006, 07:49 AM
#12
Firstly, "your the idiot. " is an ironic statement. I'll let you figure out why.
Secondly, our cars would go much slower if the gears weren't the way they were. So stop complaining unless you wanted a slower car. You should have bought a Tiburon or something then. And coming from someone who just learned to drive manual, you need to learn how to drive. 1st gear is just fine to start in, without "jerking around."
Third, how many diesel cars has Toyota put into the US? Not a lot. And they're not going to start with Scion. I hope you don't work for any sort of marketing, statistics or R&D sort of company, because they need to hire someone else.
Give your griping a rest. I think we get great mileage for the performance. While a 6th gear would be nice, it costs money. And Scion isn't terribly high end or expensive as I recall. It's just a good package deal for the deal-conscious consumer. As it was said, you knew exactly what figures to expect from the sticker right on the car.
Secondly, our cars would go much slower if the gears weren't the way they were. So stop complaining unless you wanted a slower car. You should have bought a Tiburon or something then. And coming from someone who just learned to drive manual, you need to learn how to drive. 1st gear is just fine to start in, without "jerking around."
Third, how many diesel cars has Toyota put into the US? Not a lot. And they're not going to start with Scion. I hope you don't work for any sort of marketing, statistics or R&D sort of company, because they need to hire someone else.
Give your griping a rest. I think we get great mileage for the performance. While a 6th gear would be nice, it costs money. And Scion isn't terribly high end or expensive as I recall. It's just a good package deal for the deal-conscious consumer. As it was said, you knew exactly what figures to expect from the sticker right on the car.
08-28-2006, 01:42 PM
#14
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The car would not perform as well as it does with higher gearing, PERIOD. Go drive the auto and tell me more. The comments you make are a joke, and if you think you can just slap in a higher top gear and call it good, then you are not exactly "competent".
1978 Toyota Corrola, older GM 4 bangers, my saturn SC1... should I go on? Why did they do it that way? TO GET MORE ACCELLERATION WITH LOWER POWER.
Its funny.. I notice a pattern here. On each forum, there are thos "know it all" cry babies that seem to think you are nut swinging if you agree with something or dont jump on the big "conspiracy" wagon.
If you dont want to hear the answers, then dont post questions. This topic has been covered a million times here and on other forums. Go to yoursciontc.com and search for it (like you should have done here... big red button that says "search" on it). There are plenty of others on there that have built thier share of race cars, motorcycles, etc that also talk about what is needed to do this.
And again, you test drove the car and bought it with this "terrible" problem.. so who is the idiot now?
But go ahead. I am sure you will come back and throw some more name calling.. good way to show your intelligence :D I will leave this to your "superior" mind .......
Secondly... how many four cylinder vehicles have you driven that can be started from a dead stop in 2nd gear without really having to abuse the clutch that much
In conclusion... keep up the Toyota nut swingin
If you dont want to hear the answers, then dont post questions. This topic has been covered a million times here and on other forums. Go to yoursciontc.com and search for it (like you should have done here... big red button that says "search" on it). There are plenty of others on there that have built thier share of race cars, motorcycles, etc that also talk about what is needed to do this.
And again, you test drove the car and bought it with this "terrible" problem.. so who is the idiot now?
But go ahead. I am sure you will come back and throw some more name calling.. good way to show your intelligence :D I will leave this to your "superior" mind .......
08-28-2006, 11:46 PM
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I know you think your the brilliant one here, but maybe you should do some research on other vehicles that you can modify the drivetrain on before you open your mouth. Like any rear wheel drive car for instance, and just incase you want to say its not possible on FWD cars, check out some VW forums because getting a taller 5th gear is a very popular mod for people with TDI VW's. It makes the car do 100mph @ about 2200rpm's and can only be practically engaged @ around 65mph without bogging out.
Just because 90% of the people who read the boards here are ignorant doesnt mean that im gonna be treated like a noob by the high post count forum ****'s. The original thread asked if there were any aftermarket taller 5th gears available. The answer "No" would have sufficed.
Just because 90% of the people who read the boards here are ignorant doesnt mean that im gonna be treated like a noob by the high post count forum ****'s. The original thread asked if there were any aftermarket taller 5th gears available. The answer "No" would have sufficed.
08-28-2006, 11:57 PM
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you just ____ed off three people who have the most knowledge on this site... way to go, however fifth gear would be a dog if any taller, therefore sacrificing performance which is what this car was aimed at. Shorter gear = faster acceleration = exactly what the target crowd wanted... well aside from you I guess... But I gotta go with engifineer if you weren't happy with the fifth gear why buy the car.
HOWEVER = ZPIs six speed sounds like something you should look into... Plus it comes with the LSD
HOWEVER = ZPIs six speed sounds like something you should look into... Plus it comes with the LSD
08-29-2006, 12:03 AM
#17
Good for the VW guys. I'm happy for them. Key factor: VW guys. Not Toyota/Scion guys.
"No" (even though you continued to say Toyota "screwed" us in mileage despite someone saying no already, bringing about all this chatter)
</argument>
"No" (even though you continued to say Toyota "screwed" us in mileage despite someone saying no already, bringing about all this chatter)
</argument>
08-29-2006, 12:33 AM
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Im curious guys... how many of you that are interested in "Performance" are still on the gas when you get into fifth gear? If you run all the way through all 4 gears thats not enough speed?
what im saying is, who is using 5th gear as a performance gear anyway? 1-4 are fine if your at a dragstrip unless your pushing a ton of power.
what im saying is, who is using 5th gear as a performance gear anyway? 1-4 are fine if your at a dragstrip unless your pushing a ton of power.
08-29-2006, 01:00 AM
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What part of the RWD are you talking about? Yeah, I can (and have) slap a ring and pinion in a RWD and change the axle ratio.. that affects ALL gears, not just top gear. Other than that, same thing, you are messing with the tranny itself. So you sacrafice by running higher gears and have to decide what balance you want between gears. You either want 5th to be a glorified overdrive or you want a top gear that you dont have to drop out of at the least sign of a hill or slower vehicle.
And yes, you could go out and do a lot of work and make a taller 5th.. that would be a dog. I personally like it that I can pass in 5th on the highway or drive up large hills with no issues or downshifting. I could care less if I am running a little higher rpm at cruising speed. I knew that before I bought the car. I still run 30 on the highway and am happy with it. My main point was that it is well known info before a car is purchased, so toyota screwed no one. It is up to us to decide on the car.
And I in no way think I am the "brilliant" one here. I just happen to have been lucky enough to learn a lot over the years working on them in various forms. And to say someone thinks they are brilliant for pointing out the simple things we are speaking of on here isnt saying much. This really isnt very complicated. And again, you cant research a car, test drive it, buy it and then say we were screwed by toyota for something plainly obvious. If you wanted to buy something else, then say "I hated the tC because of the short gearing" then fine.. that would be a smart choice based on what you were looking for. But the tC is not a car to buy for fuel economy. It is great for a fun little 4 banger that doesnt guzzle gas, but it is not quite a full econo car when it comes to this area.
And yes, you could go out and do a lot of work and make a taller 5th.. that would be a dog. I personally like it that I can pass in 5th on the highway or drive up large hills with no issues or downshifting. I could care less if I am running a little higher rpm at cruising speed. I knew that before I bought the car. I still run 30 on the highway and am happy with it. My main point was that it is well known info before a car is purchased, so toyota screwed no one. It is up to us to decide on the car.
And I in no way think I am the "brilliant" one here. I just happen to have been lucky enough to learn a lot over the years working on them in various forms. And to say someone thinks they are brilliant for pointing out the simple things we are speaking of on here isnt saying much. This really isnt very complicated. And again, you cant research a car, test drive it, buy it and then say we were screwed by toyota for something plainly obvious. If you wanted to buy something else, then say "I hated the tC because of the short gearing" then fine.. that would be a smart choice based on what you were looking for. But the tC is not a car to buy for fuel economy. It is great for a fun little 4 banger that doesnt guzzle gas, but it is not quite a full econo car when it comes to this area.
08-29-2006, 02:34 AM
#20
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I will agree that the gearing is tight on the tC, and I really wish they did put in a 6th gear, keep the gearing the way it is, just throw in that 6th gear. I would use that 6th gear alot. I drove to canada here, and I had the cruise at 75, and it was less then a 3 hour drive there, and almost went through a full tank. I drove to Cape Cod with my tC, over 4 hour drive, and I only used up about a half of a tank, and I was going 120 MPH for at least a hour and a half. Overall, I like the gearing in the tC, because it has alot of power behind the transmission.
I do wish there was a 6th gear though, that would be really nice.
I do wish there was a 6th gear though, that would be really nice.