its_ikon

I see how excited everyone is with the tC coming out with the supercharger in june. well, 200 hp does sound good but it is only a 25% increase in power. i am assuming the supercharger will cost about 3000 also. is it really going to be worth that money for a 25% increase in power? i am not sure if anyone was really thinking about the performance increase, but were just relying on information. Toyota's numbers are also not to the wheels.

gstuiep

one thing you have to think about is the warranty....they have to cover that engine for 5yrs 60k....so they are not gonna put g force power under the hood.....that supercharger im sure is capable of 250+ HP, but the question is will the engine take that kinda abuse for as long as the warranty...toyota is not willing to take that chance so they tune it down a little...i myself plan to boost that hp first thing My dad is a master diag tech at the local toyota dealership so all i have to do is pay for parts i destroy and buy him a steak dinner :D :D :D I believe i read on this site "shorten the pulley, and intake and exhaust and supra fuel injectors and you will have 250 hp easy.. and thats not much of a dent in the pocket. as far as performance upgrades go. Also i think 25% increase in power is very significant.... people pay about 500 for a freakin ehaust...what do u get from that??? maybe 10 hp at the crank and an intake and you got yourself 15hp for about $700.... if you want real/ noticible power you go with a turbo or supercharger...they are expensive yes and they do shorten the life of the car....you make the decision is the 200hp toyota is willing to warranty good enough? For many yes..not me


also...you figure about a 20-30% loss in HP onces the power gets to the wheels...but every company specs the crank not the wheels...a 200 hp RSX (for over 30k i might add) really puts out about 160hp...and the same can be said for the tc...so if you are gonna compare hp you gotta be consistant b/c obviously a 200hp at the wheel car is a lot faster than a 200 hp car at the crank :D

jjp

I agree that 200 hp is a paltry increase for a 2.4litre i-4. However, untill the actual specs come out I am hoping that the torque increase will be greater, mayber 215-220. To be honest, I could care less about the HP gains in any given car. Show me the torque curve baby.

gstuiep

AGREED!!! Thats what a supercharger is all about!!! If i wanted hp id get an N/A abd turbo it...i want torque! Get me from light to light as fast as possible :D

I had a turbo mr2...3sgte... i always raced my friend in his z3 and it was always sooo close b/c he was N/A and got his torque right away and i was always playing catch-up...cant stand that!!! Hopefully with the s/c tc and a few modest upgrades i can shove that bimmer emblem up his tail pipe! :twisted:

vpkb

nah,tell your friend to come race me, i'll give you a different outlook on MR2 s

gstuiep

wat u mean by that??? im confused :?:

my mr2 was 99% stock...obviously the 3sgte can be heavily modded :D
i saw 99% b/c i had a K&N filter lol

i got no beef with mr2's...i loved mine...just couldnt rationalize payin geico 2800 $ a yr to drive it knowing if i wrecked it the would only give me 4k
lol

izzles

I think its a good idea.....More than likely all you need to do is get an upgrade in pully size and you would be able to squeeze out more power, change the ignition and fuel cuves with a boost controller and man you got yourself a little speed demon....I mean there is alot more you can do but I can go on for days with that one....

jackmott

and the neon srt4 is making way way more power than a supercharged scion stock. with all its warranty intact....

scion needs to relase the TC with the supercharger as standard equipment!

its_ikon

i know torque numbers are probably the most important, but in real life terms most people look at hp ratings. that is what sells cars. although some of us pay close attention to the torque rating, most don't. i just hope trd doesn't sale the s/c for 3000-3500 because it is not worth it. the camry engine is a great engine and will no problem taking power. i wonder what the hp rating will be to the wheels.

TheRedBox

[quote="gstuiep"I believe i read on this site "shorten the pulley, and intake and exhaust and supra fuel injectors and you will have 250 hp easy.. [/quote]

uhmm. dont think so.

Milhamscion

[quote=TheRedBox]what do you think it would take then?
Won't the pully go along way towards upping the hp? (as long as the engine can handle the added boost)

gstuiep

Adding the TRD supercharger will bump the output to about 200Hp, but a smaller pulley will add even more boost. Upgrading the fuel system with injectors and a Supra fuel pump will insure that the engine never gets too thirsty for fuel. I believe that a few more bolt-ons will get this beast to around 250Hp which is plenty for daily driving.
-daren seeman

I just copied that directly from this site

By the way...just priced out srt-4 and it is 21,690...good price right? However, its a dodge product not a toyota....and i head (not sure if this is true or not) but i heard that they are having a lot of problems with blown head gaskets.....so just b/c dodge is willing to warranty the car doesnt mean its a smart decision...Once you are outta that warranty...good luck with paying for a head gasket, possibly a new head and block depending on the damage done by the loss of coolant or oil....trust me I had a 1986 supra with a "blown headgasket" and a warped and cracked head...never mentioned in the sale. Cost me about 4k to repair...and i dont have to pay labor cuz my dad is a toyota master tech.... Just my 2 cents..i dont trust the dodge product.... sorry if that offends anyone. you get what u pay for

TheRedBox

i just wrote a long ___ post but for some reason it didnt go through.

To keep it short.. we need to know the strengths and weakness of the motor before we can say what parts add what... oh and also the smaller pulleys only add 3-5psi.. so dont expect HUGE gains... its not like uping boost on a turbo.

jjp

Does anyone know if the supposed S/C kit for the tC will include any type of inter/aftercooler? The GM 3800 SC engine that is a mainstay of the Grand Prix GTP does not come with a Cooling unit and makes similarly "modest" gains in hp that have been touted for the Scion tC. I know people that have slapped on an aftermrket IC and gotten 275-285 hp at the wheels (and with new pully diameters, upwards of 300). Perhaps the fact that the SC kit will not be cooled may be a reason for the "lack" of hp gain from this Super Caharger option.

I agree that $3000-$3500 is a bit pricy. To be honest, the engine line up in the scions has been the only thing preventing me from purchasing one thus far (Why oh why can't toyota put a low boost SC on the 1.5- BMW did it and the Mini is fun as hell to drive).

Also, a Camry engine, in a near-Camry weight car (about 150 lbs less weight on the tC I believe) means we can expect mid to low 8 second sprints to 60mph. High 7s at best. However, I do like the relatively low torque delivery of this engine when compared to the celica GT-s engine that some said would power the tC.

gstuiep

from the pics and s/c that trd already makes id so no on the intercooler. Very good point. you intercool that thing and you are talkin much more impressive hp....again a good intercooler is not only hard to find a place for, but somewhat expensive

as far as the trd s/c i wouldnt pay a penny more than 3k for it...if they wanted more id go aftermarket or custom.

ConnerrySE01

To reference your post: Oddly enough, based on standard features, body style/dimensions/weight and the upcoming supercharger option, your best apples-to-apples comparison is the Mercedes-Benz Sport coupe..the "entry level" C230 Kompressor coupe/hatch to be exact.

Before you flame, check it out yourself and compare.....

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/models/C230K.jsp

There may be a few features here and there that don't match exactly, and of course, no one in their right mind at Mercedes would even dare invite such a comparison, but take a good, close look at features, specs, dimensions, engine (again, I'm referring to TC WITH s/c.)...and consider that a) we don't know what extra options will be offered for the TC upon release, and B) that out of the gate, the Tc is pretty damn loaded for 30% less than this thing, even if you assume the s/c option will elict a $20K price for the Tc.

But don't belive what I say...see for yourselves.

Last edited by ConnerrySE01 on Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total

ConnerrySE01

To reference YOUR post: re: the Mercedes-Benz C230 Kompressor coupe.
More food for thought;
Here are MB's performance numbers for the C230:
Curb weight 3,250 lb/1,475 kg (manual), 3,280 lb/1,490 kg (automatic) vehicle.

engine: 1,796-cc intercooled supercharged DOHC 16-valve inline-4. Dual balance shafts. High-pressure die-cast alloy cylinder block. Alloy heads.

Net power 189 hp @ 5,800 rpm

Net torque 192 lb-ft @ 3,500-4,000 rpm

Performance

Acceleration1 0-60 mph in 7.2 seconds (manual), 7.5 seconds (automatic)


Okay, so there you have it. a vehicle with VERY similar dimensions/ features, and options... yet 300 lbs heavier.

assuming the Tc with S/C's torque numbers go up 20%, as it would seems the hp number's are (N/A-160 hp. S/C-200hp verified via dividing NA hp by .80, or 20%)
you get this: NA tq-163 ft/lbs. S/C tq (assumed) 203ft/lbs.

Factor in the 300 lb curb weight difference, it's likely the Scion will, with supercharger, break into the 6 second 0-60 range, from the factory. And that's before that s/c's boost output gets tweaked up a notch or two. I know I'LL do it.

Not bad for 20K.

And Screw the SRT-4. After they beat you at the track, you can give all their girlfriends and groupies a nice phat ride home while the SRT-$ pilots're at the side of the road, waiting for a AAA tow truck and wondering why $19k went out the window.

monkeyboy

So how much of a difference do you think it would get with a smaller pulley, larger exhaust, and cai..... the basic mods

ConnerrySE01

Couldn't tell you...best thing to do is search the web and see if there're any Camrys/RAV4's out there with basic mods to the base 160 hp engine.
That's based on the assumption that the Tc'll be the first application of this engine w/ the S/C.
Who knows, maybe someone on a Camry/RAV4 board (if such things exist) have applied these mods already.

jjp

I didn't make myself clear. My estimates for times are based on the naturally aspirated model, with a camry engine, in a near camry weight car. According to Carsdirect.com, the weight of the camry LE (2.4 litre I4) with 5speed manual is 3,086 lbs. Acceleration times should be slightly faster than the base camry, due to the weight difference.

As for the supercharger, who knows what that thing will do to acceleration times. The simple number of 200hp does little until we see torque delivery of this hypothetical engine.

ConnerrySE01, I agree that low-mid 6 second sprints to 60mph would be nice for >20k, but <22k. There is a cut off, and that cut off is defined by what "well below 20k" means for the base model.