tc tunerz header dyno / not much gain
12-21-2004, 06:41 AM
#22
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 36
DC makes nice stuff (i own a ceramic shorty header from dc on my si) but overall you won't feel anything on the butt dyno.
I would say the main thing to look at perfomance-wise would be finding a header with larger diameter primaries that still keeps the lower torque curve from dropping as a sacrifice for more up top hp. .02
I would say the main thing to look at perfomance-wise would be finding a header with larger diameter primaries that still keeps the lower torque curve from dropping as a sacrifice for more up top hp. .02
12-22-2004, 06:28 AM
#23
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**UPDATE**
Stock Scion tC= 113.4 Torque / 130.0 Power
With Header System= 138.9 Torque / 129.8 Power
With Header System and no Stock Intake Box= 141.2 Torque / 133.5 Power
The header system yeilds a .2 Power loss and 25.5 Torque gain.
Stock Scion tC= 113.4 Torque / 130.0 Power
With Header System= 138.9 Torque / 129.8 Power
With Header System and no Stock Intake Box= 141.2 Torque / 133.5 Power
The header system yeilds a .2 Power loss and 25.5 Torque gain.
12-22-2004, 05:41 PM
#24
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Are you kidding me? The tC has a 30hp loss through the Tranny? That doesnt seem right. Thats a 20% loss. I thought it was only like 12-15% loss.
And torque? Your baseline says that the tC looses 30% torque from the crank to the wheels. I'm not so sure those are good numbers to go by for a stock tC.
And torque? Your baseline says that the tC looses 30% torque from the crank to the wheels. I'm not so sure those are good numbers to go by for a stock tC.
12-23-2004, 06:06 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by tCtunerZ
Originally Posted by squirrel
The tubing aren't the same length, thus the reaso for no gains.
Yeah, not all four are, maybe two pairs of two. Ok, if you say they are. Maybe the tubes are the wrong length then. 
Hmm, is Chris paid back in full yet?
12-25-2004, 03:09 AM
#33
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Good to know your testing the the header on an automatic car because my moms is also.
I dont see how the auto tranny could cause that big of a torque loss??
Hp doesnt look bad but 114flbs is like a Civic. Ewwww!!!!
I dont see how the auto tranny could cause that big of a torque loss??
Hp doesnt look bad but 114flbs is like a Civic. Ewwww!!!!
01-23-2005, 05:36 PM
#40
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dyno reads WHP, it uses a pickup to calculate torque, sometimes the pick is flaky and the torque is WAY off. I owned and ran a dyno shop for a LONG time. A header does not lose 30 ft-lbs but I can believe it only made .2 WHP.
The scion TC has a OK factory header and a large well shaped exhaust. I would expect little gains from the whole system. Header to tail pipe. Say 10 to 15 WHP. That said it would not be worth the NOISE, the lack of OEM warranty etc. I'd just save the $1000 and wait to see what the supercharger is like.
IMO a $4000 supercharger with factory backing at 40 WHP is worth FAR more then a Header, complete exhaust, TB, and CAI at $1500 for say 22 WHP. The supercharger is going to offer FAR more torque, far more useful driving power, quite. cool supercharger badge, ultimate bragging rights.
You drive torque, you buy HP. The supercharge supplies both, the other mods only supply 1/2: the HP part. i.e. the TRD supercharger will put out 180 ft-lbs to the wheels and the other mods put out 140 so it is more like $4000 for 40 ft-lbs useful 99.99% of the time vs $1500 for 3 ft-lbs only useful in the upper rev range aka HP.
I found this here:
Secret Weapon Intake (no air box, open hood)
Baseline - 141.1hp, 151.1 ft/lb
SW Intake - 147.6hp, 154.8 ft/lb
Full Race Header (SW Intake, open header, ignition bridge)
Baseline - 147.6hp, 151.1 ft/lb
Race Header - 159.7hp, 160.7ft/lb
http://www.clubsciontc.com/modules.p...r=asc&start=45
I assume you need to registered to read the actual post. Never the less a RACE header with no exhaust at all makes 12 HP no doubt that most it is on the tip end. The intake is 6 WHP and seems to in for a rework. So lets say a “working” intake is 10 HP. There ya go 22 WHP race header no exhaust at all, and please cars don’t make more WHP capped up, at least not at WOT.
The scion TC performance has the 22 WHP with: header, intake II, TB, exhaust.
http://suzukird.com/scion-tc-perform...er_exhaust.jpg
Looks to be a race header so CEL and illegal. Surprising torque but the run does start almost ½ through the engine power curve.
I think that just about does it. Normally aspirated you are looking at about 20 to 25 HP with simple stuff upto $1500.00.
Supercharger say 40 HP and drivable low end torque, whisper quiet (important for me), will have some gear whine ( I like that sound vs blab shift blab sound), for $4000.00 no CEL, legal (a good thing), no warranty problems (a really good thing).
One last thing and I’m know on my last board to do this (long post), there whole blurb that a header does not void your warranty is just internet hype by guys that don’t know. The factory and I mean ALL factories not just Toyota have a canned speech where the “engineer” show how a header can cause lean out that can burn exhaust valves, roast pistons, cause the cat to fail, confuse the ECU. These gurus have no experience arguing the Magnusen – Moss act in front of a lemon law advocate. I’ve seen the VW white papers on chiping for instance. VW has done so much testing to show how a chip causes a tad bit more stress on the engine. You chip a VW and it blows you best be sure the VW engineer with an engineering degree shows up to the advocate with the white paper in hand, while alls the people here will go by is um I read on the internet that the header would NOT void my warranty. Yeah right, sheep to the slaughter. IMO. Young naïve sheep too. Blowing a motor that has a CEL light on due to a race header WILL void your warranty and Toyota will pull the ECU trouble codes when it get towed in can I be more clear?
The scion TC has a OK factory header and a large well shaped exhaust. I would expect little gains from the whole system. Header to tail pipe. Say 10 to 15 WHP. That said it would not be worth the NOISE, the lack of OEM warranty etc. I'd just save the $1000 and wait to see what the supercharger is like.
IMO a $4000 supercharger with factory backing at 40 WHP is worth FAR more then a Header, complete exhaust, TB, and CAI at $1500 for say 22 WHP. The supercharger is going to offer FAR more torque, far more useful driving power, quite. cool supercharger badge, ultimate bragging rights.
You drive torque, you buy HP. The supercharge supplies both, the other mods only supply 1/2: the HP part. i.e. the TRD supercharger will put out 180 ft-lbs to the wheels and the other mods put out 140 so it is more like $4000 for 40 ft-lbs useful 99.99% of the time vs $1500 for 3 ft-lbs only useful in the upper rev range aka HP.
I found this here:
Secret Weapon Intake (no air box, open hood)
Baseline - 141.1hp, 151.1 ft/lb
SW Intake - 147.6hp, 154.8 ft/lb
Full Race Header (SW Intake, open header, ignition bridge)
Baseline - 147.6hp, 151.1 ft/lb
Race Header - 159.7hp, 160.7ft/lb
http://www.clubsciontc.com/modules.p...r=asc&start=45
I assume you need to registered to read the actual post. Never the less a RACE header with no exhaust at all makes 12 HP no doubt that most it is on the tip end. The intake is 6 WHP and seems to in for a rework. So lets say a “working” intake is 10 HP. There ya go 22 WHP race header no exhaust at all, and please cars don’t make more WHP capped up, at least not at WOT.
The scion TC performance has the 22 WHP with: header, intake II, TB, exhaust.
http://suzukird.com/scion-tc-perform...er_exhaust.jpg
Looks to be a race header so CEL and illegal. Surprising torque but the run does start almost ½ through the engine power curve.
I think that just about does it. Normally aspirated you are looking at about 20 to 25 HP with simple stuff upto $1500.00.
Supercharger say 40 HP and drivable low end torque, whisper quiet (important for me), will have some gear whine ( I like that sound vs blab shift blab sound), for $4000.00 no CEL, legal (a good thing), no warranty problems (a really good thing).
One last thing and I’m know on my last board to do this (long post), there whole blurb that a header does not void your warranty is just internet hype by guys that don’t know. The factory and I mean ALL factories not just Toyota have a canned speech where the “engineer” show how a header can cause lean out that can burn exhaust valves, roast pistons, cause the cat to fail, confuse the ECU. These gurus have no experience arguing the Magnusen – Moss act in front of a lemon law advocate. I’ve seen the VW white papers on chiping for instance. VW has done so much testing to show how a chip causes a tad bit more stress on the engine. You chip a VW and it blows you best be sure the VW engineer with an engineering degree shows up to the advocate with the white paper in hand, while alls the people here will go by is um I read on the internet that the header would NOT void my warranty. Yeah right, sheep to the slaughter. IMO. Young naïve sheep too. Blowing a motor that has a CEL light on due to a race header WILL void your warranty and Toyota will pull the ECU trouble codes when it get towed in can I be more clear?
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