Menace

I am just busting *****

Tcguy85

ok it's all good.... thought maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. haha

Spect2K3

yes. I am sure that you beat them. You are racing and therefore revving quite high where there is a difference and advantage over them. They have more low end power to get around town though. So unless you drive like you are racing somebody on an everyday basis, they actually have more torque in their low end than you do - and that is after you have spent around $700 may I guesstimate...

I am all for modding, heck just check out my profile, but I am for mods that make a difference (nav system, torque dampers, sway bars, springs, etc). I can't afford f/i and I wouldn't go there if I could (I need as reliable a car as possible that is going to last me well into my future, thats why i bought a scion). Honestly, I am man enough that I don't have to try to impress the girls with loud sounds and flashy injen stickers on my car that in reality do very little.....no offense. I modify my car so that it is more pleasurable for ME to drive and not anybody else. Now I know of many people who throw on flashy aftermarket rims, bodykits and axleback exhaust systems in hopes of gaining some attention when in reality tend to look more ricey and pathetic than anything else. Granted, there are people that do it in style and others that have the goal of developing a show car - I can appreciate that. But my car isn't a show car and unless you are planning on building one, I believe that a cai in a stock tC is for show and sound, nothing more.

Menace

First, I have no torque loss. If you mod correctly you can almost eliminate any torque losses. Second, even if there was, its not as big of a concern as you make it out to be. I would much rather be able to pass people on the highway with ease. Even with some torque loss you still have a tc and not a civic.

To me a fancy nav system is a waste of money. I would much rather get a header, to me that makes a difference. Let's see, you want a torque damper but don't want to increase any power? You want stiff springs and and sways but you don't race somebody on every day basis? Hmmm....

Loud sounds? Injen stickers? This thread was about a CAI not stickers or sounds, or impressing girls. Most people like my self mod because: 1) We want to be faster 2) We like racing (track) 3) I like competing with my friends/car club

That's fine, but once again, unless you are racing, auto xing or something in between, stiffer springs and etd will have the exact opposite effect on your driving pleasure, makes you feel every bump more, and makes it a lot more uncomfortable for your passengers.

How do you know the reason behind their "aftermarket rims, bodykits and axleback exhaust systems"? Most people out of high school do that for the same reason you do, for them selves. To be frank, the following mods are a lot more ricier than the ones you listed "OBX Sports Pedals/ Blue Interior LEDs / Rear Bumper Applique/Dynamat License Plate Kit / TRD Oil Filler Cap / "Synthetic Oil Only" Sticker / TRD Emblem / TRD High Performance Radiator Cap" but to each is own.

Then you are denying the law of thermodynamics and have obviously neglected to look at dyno sheets. A CAI has almost no torque loss and provides very little sound as opposed to a SRI.

Spect2K3

Wow, where do I start. Torque loss is proven, so I am not going to argue facts.

I just moved to a new state, so to me, a nav system makes quite a difference. (see how things vary by person, watch as I continue). A header to me would serve what purpose exactly? I don't race my car.

Springs and sways are to improve handling. So taking a turn a bit faster or having a bit more control and stability has nothing to do with racing either. It sure is helpful on the track, but to say that its not worth getting springs/sways unless you are racing is just ridiculous.

Let's be clear. Very few people here take their cars to the track and street racing is illegal. If I am dealing with somebody here who drag races on the public streets, discontinue reading and go throw yourself off a bridge. I hate people who put other lives in risk. Go kill yourself, but don't kill me or any other innocent life. Anyway, a cai as we said doesn't help you be faster nor is it going to help you pass any faster on the highway (7whp is quite hard to notice). If you are going to the track, start looking at more substantial upgrades that make a difference - the tC is not a sporty car stock. The fact that you go racing your friends in your tC with a injen cai and an exhaust (which you probably do on side roads) makes me think very little of you and can say with some confidence that you'd fit into that ricer category.

About the torque damper. You must not understand what it actually does. It provides 2 main benefits. One, it reduces wheel hop - quick story, I was following my dad home a short while back and to get behind him I tried to make a quick move, well my tires bounced so high off the ground that it felt like a century before it came back down. That is when I decided I wanted it. The second main benefit is that it reduces engine movement which eliminates a lot of stress off of suspension components. As a minor addition, the stiffy can be adjusted to such an extent that it can be used for the track (around 10-11mm) or for the street (13-15mm). I have mine on 15mm with dynamat. This accomplishes not adding any sound of vibration, yet still getting the benefit. So don't talk about a product that you are unfamiliar with (clearly).

OBX sports pedals are for traction when my shoes are wet -makes a big difference to me. Blue LEDs are as I said, a creature comfort for myself. I hate the stock yellow lights that come on in the car when it's nighttime. This is much more subtle and therefore comfortable for me. The rear applique is to prevent the bumper from being damaged when taking things out of the trunk and loading it. The dynamat kit is to prevent the license plate from rattling against the trunk everytime I hit a bump (really drove me nuts). The TRD oil filler cap was a gift from the dealership. The synthetic oil only sticker is to ensure that nobody tries to put dyno oil in my car (it could really mess things up, after all, my local mech likes to give free oil changes w/o telling people when they bring in their car for something else). The trd emblem was also a gift when I went in to buy my girl a xB (which never happened). The high performance radiator cap was given to me by my sister for my b-day b/c she thought it'd make a difference and that i'd like it. she is so sweet. Aren't 12 year olds thoughtful?

So anyway, if there are any other parts in my profile that you would like to try to critique, go right ahead. I had fun justifying my purchases and shutting you down at the same time. I can say that the taste of it has really made my day.


Oh, and about the stock tC and cai being for show and sound - I like that you are discussing physics b/c I myself do love to discuss physics as well. Clearly though simple ideas may be a bit much for you as you are demonstrating. Of course there is a difference on the dyno sheets. I made an implication which I thought was well enough discussed in my post that indicated that although there are gains, they are quite negligable and less than most people can feel on their best day. A full cai, since the air has a longer was to travel, will experience more of a low end torque loss than a SRI. Since it is farther away, the sound will be a bit less in the cabin. With a SRI, there is less low end torque loss and the sound is much louder in the cabin. Check the dyno sheets on that - again, minimal losses and nothing that can be felt, but that seems to be a pretty common idea around cai/sri, a dyno difference that can hardly be felt. If you want to feel a difference, either spend your life savings on bring the tC engine to 200whp n/a or spend a heck of a lot less to go f/i.

Menace

You remind me of this other guy that argues with me, all assumption and no facts. I do not wish to write another essay so I will summarize.

Actually lets, look at graph of Injen, stock, and any SRI and we will see how negligible the torque loss is on the Injen CAI.

As for the Nav, thats what you would rather get. To each is own, but don't impose your opinions on others.

Unless you are pushing your car over your stock limitations there is no need for suspension mods and sways, or any other mods for that matter unless like you said it's to impress others. Do you mean to tell me you invest over $700 not to push your car on those curves and turns? I know, you want a more stable car to drive 35mph in the city and 55mph on the highway. No wait, the tc does that pretty well stock,...

All your moral ranting aside (you don't know me and the same case can be made about you taking turns faster than you should) I will skip that nonsense.

Very good on the torque damper, you got one part right.

As for all those stickers and caps, I really don't care, thats your thing, but you were the one talking about Injen stickers being rice a post ago, meanwhile you are the epitome of the stickers and caps. I just find it kind of funny.

Extremely overly simplified to the point that its inaccurate. That may effect lag and is also felt on cars that don't have an adequate enough vacuum. Here is a good link for you to read Mr.I Love To Argue Physics: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question517.htm

After you finish reading then read up on thermodynamics, which was my point initially.

Also, here is the Injen compared to two SRIs; Weapon-R and Umitza
Clearly, no torque loss.


I am also glad I made your day, if you want I can make tomorrow as well.

Spect2K3

Alright dude, I am not going to get into the inaccuracies here. Like $700 i spend for springs and sways?? ($150 for spring and $145 for sway = $700??) Like telling me not to impose MY opinions??? All of the mods an individual buys are just what that individual wants, your argument about the nav system is....??? You posted a graph to prove me correct and a physics link to prove me correct. I was the one who said it was negligible (just like the gains are, lose some low end (-2-3hp) to pick up a couple high end where most spend no time (+6-8 )), remember??? Other than some lowering springs, tints, and a s2K antenna, you can't even tell my car is modded from the outside and I am the epitome of caps and stickers????

I am not going to continue this battle of wits with you. After all, you are clearly unarmed.

The last word is yours...

jaxtcracer

hey menace, not to get all involved in your argument with spec, but your graph is meaningless. you have a CAI compared with 2 SRIs... so... we're missing the stock intake curve. I'm sure that would have shown a TQ loss, since, as spec said, has been seen time and time again by users of this forum. also, spec explained why he has the stickers and whatnot, and i found it reasonable. if you want to make someone's day, why don't you go explain to his little sister why you think a radiator cap was a present that should never have been installed on his car? forgive me for posting, but i've seen spec's other threads and i respect him as an SL member... not that i don't necessarily respect you, but right now i think you should stop trying to prove him wrong over things that he either explained or have been proven on the forums for the past 2+ years. and that's all i have to say about that.

Spect2K3

^^thanks for the support jax. facts are facts. Heck, I thought it was a meaningful gift. lol

BZinn1

OK so I am not sure if I got this correctly.........stock exhaust on the video..............????????that was nice man...........stock.........????I cannot wait for my intake if it makes the sound go up like that............sexxy.....

draxcaliber

look, cold air intakes DO add horsepower, not alot, but there is a simple fact that for every 10 degrees you cool the incoming air, you get 1% more power from the engine. that is what cold air intakes try to accomplish. that is why older muscle cars had their intakes under big hood scoops, one was for the ram air effect, and the other was for the cool air that would come in from outside the hot engine compartment.

now, the cooler air is denser, therefore, you are able to fit more air into the cylinder and add more fuel for ignition and make more power.

fuel is the powersource and air unlocks it.

now, as for hydrolocking, i have the trd cai with the bypass valve. i have driven through downpours where the roads looked like rivers with 2 inches of water on the ground. never had a problem.

i'm not stupid, like she i was driving home and i saw the road was flooded ahead, i stopped, got out and gauged how deep the water was determined that it was shallow enough to pass. but having a cold air intake doesn't mean you have to hitch a ride whenever it rains, or pull over if you get caught in storm. it just means avoid deep puddles on the driver side. not hard to do at all.

Menace

I am always up for a good debate. You show me your facts I'll show you mine, we'll analyze and see who is right and who is wrong. So far, the only thing that you showed me is flip-flopping and hiding behind your little sister. So, let me highlight what I said and why I said it as apparently some people don't read or have selective reading.

First, once again, I do not care what stickers and caps you put on your car, why you put them on, or who gave them to you. This topic was about CAI. I only pointed them out to display the irony in Specs posts: Hiding behind your little sister after I called you out on it is even more pathetic.

Second, there is no argument about your Nav. I simply replied to your: and said that to me, a header makes more difference than a Nav.

Next, you can take credit and flip-flop: But let's just humor me and take a look at your statements. Umm, incorrect. That graph that I posted clearly displays the best SRI for the tc (Weapon-R) and another SRI waaaay behind the Injen in torque at lower RPMs, by over 10lbs/ft below 3.25k RPMs. Also, you obviously didn't read the article, where it states that some intakes theoretically would be beneficial as long as 10ft long. While length of an intake has nothing to do with low end torque loss.

So, you can maintain your "you proved me correct" attitude, I personally don't care. Anyone who reads this objectively and unbiased can come up with their own conclusion. Which brings me to my last point...

jaxtcracer, please read carefully the entire thread before making comments. Everything you said was addressed and discussed before. There was no graph that also displays stock on top of those. Still, the graph is more than "meaningless" (please read above) and you can tell how the torque line in Injen is steady and leveled in the beginning indicating a very torquey power band in low RPMs.

ParadoxTC

i got my injen cai intake a few days ago and am installing it on saturday.

im going to make it into a short ram so i won't be afraid of the rain getting sucked in. wouldn't that help? even with the bypass valve, still a chance so im trying to reduce that risk.

my brother has a rsx-s and over the weekend, there was a huge downpour and the water got sucked up into his intake and his car stopped in the middle of the rain. he let it sit for awhile but was able to start it up. it freaks me out =( but i cant wait for the vroom noise =)

Menace

In all honesty if you get the Injen you might as well make it CAI or there will not be much benefit in power. Plus, when it's used as a SRI the A/F ratio seems to be off at higher RPMs. It was tuned to be used as a CAI. As far as hydrolocking, there is a big misconception of hydrolocking just by water splashing on your filter. For your engine to hydrolock you need to submerge it in water. Contrary to popular belief, heave rain or going over puddles will not do cause your engine to lock. I can't speak for the other CAIs but the Injen, unless you are dropped is not that low to the ground and should not be a problem as long as you are careful. You can stick a bypass valve in there just to be safe, but definitely don't go the SRI route.

Sleep3r

to the people who are paranoid about hydrolocking, just don't even bother with a CAI IMO, there is just too many threads about this topic. In conclusion, if you have common sense then you won't even have to worry about hydrolocking.

ParadoxTC

I think I could just make it a either or SRI or just CAI by just a bolt.

If I just go for the CAI since it's just worth the $260, where do I get the bypass valve? Give me some sites please. =)

Sleep3r

http://www.trdsparks.com/displaypart...&parts_id=1068

Menace

It's a pain in the rear to convert it back and forth. You need to take out the wheel and preferable the bumper, if you don't want to get scratches on it. Slap a valve on if paranoid and keep it CAI.

Tcguy85

yes stock exhaust. i have the injen CAI and i also have the ingalls damper which also adds a little bit of sound to the car(at least inside the cabin). the intake is pretty quite sounding with the windows and sunroof closed but gets nice and loud when a window or the sunroof is opened up. i think i had the roof open and the driver side window down about a 3rd of the way. i love the sound and always wanted a cai.

Tcguy85

yes i agree. once you see where the actual filter sits and all the shrouds around it you'll realize it would be pretty hard to suck up any water.