krazyjvilled

both are completely stock...

i know the si has a much higher hp output... but it also is at a way higher rpm, and the tc has much higher torque numbers...

anyone got an idea? it would be pretty close wouldnt it? it appears the tc would have the advantage in the 1/4 mile..

b52hDUNN

iTrader: (1)

I had a 07 civic si but now have a tc. The civic si would kill the tc in 1/4 mile. But now im supercharged which is an even match for a stock si.

krazyjvilled

really? even with the si having WAY less torque and hitting its max hp at a much higher rpm?

b52hDUNN

iTrader: (1)

The civic gets high in rpm real fast. Once you get into the variable timing it takes off. I wouldn't want to race against one in a stock tc.

krazyjvilled

hmm, ok... so torque levels dont play much part in anything then? cuz i was surprised when i saw how much lower the torque level is compared to its hp on the si... the tc's torque is actually a tad higher than its hp

TokenAsianGuy

Scion tc's are rated at 160hp at the crank so thats around 140hp at the wheels. So I'm assuming is the Civic SI is rated at 200whp its probably 170whp.

Here is a dyno of a stock civic si. http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/civic...-wheels-2.html ITs around 177whp, they also they have LSD from the factor so yeah I'm sure an SI will crush a stock TC on the 1/4 mile. Also depends on drivers too.

b52hDUNN

iTrader: (1)

not so much on the torque. The civic has a lot more hp then the tc.

TokenAsianGuy

The torque different in hondas are crazy but they can still be quick as heck. Im sure a boosted S2K would be low on torque but smoke check most cars out there... Man I'm going to youtube that now.. LOL

krazyjvilled

what does the torque do at all then if that much of a difference in torque levels does not come into play?

TokenAsianGuy

I'm not sure, that is a question for someone else to answer. I know torque gives you that push back feeling, and I'm assuming it has something to do with how fast your car pulls, but I'm not even sure on that answer.

b52hDUNN

iTrader: (1)

Horsepower is defined as the amount of energy required to lift 550 pounds, one foot, in one second. From this definition you can see that the components of horsepower are force, distance and time. Distance and time are self-explanatory but force, specifically a twisting force, is what torque is all about.

Remember that the initial energy that moves a car forward starts in the combustion chamber in the form of an explosion. This explosion forces a piston (or group of pistons) down in a straight line, which pushes on a connecting rod and turns the engine's crankshaft. It's this turning crankshaft where the twisting force of torque initiates. From there the force is carried through a flywheel, transmission, driveshaft, axle(s) and wheel(s) before moving the car.

The measurement of torque is stated as pound-feet and represents how much twisting force is at work. If you can imagine a plumber's pipe wrench attached to a rusty drainpipe, torque is the force required to twist that pipe. If the wrench is two feet long, and the plumber pushes with 50 pounds of pressure, he is applying 100 pound-feet of torque (50 pounds x 2 feet) to turn the pipe (depending on the level of rust, this may or may not be enough torque). As you may have noticed, this measurement of torque does not include time. One-hundred pound-feet of torque is always 100 pound-feet torque, whether it is applied for five seconds or five years. So, if you want a quick answer to the difference between horsepower and torque, just keep in mind that horsepower involves the amount of work done in a given time, while torque is simply a measurement of force and is thus a component of horsepower.

krazyjvilled

ok wow, that was a good explanation.. thanks... what would the tc have an advantage in then over the si since it has much more torque if that makes sense

b52hDUNN

iTrader: (1)

Maybe a little off the line, if anything at all.

elcapetan

here is a stock civic si

http://www.dragtimes.com/2007-Honda-...phs-11282.html

here is a tc

http://www.dragtimes.com/2008-Scion-...phs-15531.html

As you can see they make more hp but less tq.

tq is generally the force that gets a car going. Hp is what keeps you going in the higher rpm's.

I have raced a stock civic si. Off the line I pulled, as soon as we hit about 70 mph he started to catch up and we were about evenly matched. Mind you I am not stock. I have i/h/e and a light crank pulley. However in a autox course the tc will beat the si all day.

nodsetse

Huh? Not stock vs stock it won't.

elcapetan

yeah I wasn't clear on that I was saying my tc vs a stock si in auto x.

krazyjvilled

whats an autox course?

TC1892

Okay heres my grudge. I know the numbers on the si are higher as far as hp and 1/4 times and everything. BUT i have raced 2 si's and beat them both. I know it has a lot to do with the driver. First race was against my friend first 3 times i beat him no problem. Second time we raced it was about even but nobody was pulling on anybody. Second si that i raced, he was actually picking on me. So i decided to go after him. We came to a light, nobody infront of us and we were at a roll...maybe about 10mph. Green light and we both went. Needless to say we got to about 70 and i had about a car length on him and still pulling away, he gave up...And heres the kicker. I AM AN AUTO!!! People make fun but in the end i raced a car thats supposed to be quicker and THEY LOST both times. I do on the other hand at the time had i/h/e but still in an auto. Also everybody i know with a tc that has raced against an si has beaten them. My friend who is manual with only an intake and 3 other people in his car pulled on an si. So in my honest opinion, numbers on a piece of paper don't count for much if supposedly the slower car keeps winning!!! Only time these numbers are going to come into affect is if both cars/drivers drive perfectly everytime. If both driver mess up, miss a gear, switch gears too high or too soon than it can go either way. I don;t care what anybody says, until i really lose to an si and badly like we are ON PAPER, than i will refuse to believe they are superior. I do believe that if i was supercharged then i would walk the si's everytime. How can i win only on bolt ons but if supercharged, it be an even race??? Doesn't make much sense to me. But this is only my 2 cents and from what i have experienced and seen.

krazyjvilled

well i will take experience over numbers any day... i mean the torque on the si is VERY low... so that HAS to count for something

go auto tho lol! im auto too...

highvoltage1

iTrader: (11)

Ok first off dude. An Si will even beat a S/C tC. The tC cant beat an Si especially an auto. You might wanna make sure its really an Si. There have been 20 million threads about this and the tC is way inferior. Soemthing is not adding up.