rhythmnsmoke

And just a little FYI on the Race I was referring to since we want to talk about "superior drivers" (Louis vs. Rich), it was Louis FIRST time ever Racing on the turbo. He did not brake boost, and didn't even know what brake boosting was. Rich has raced his S/C'er on the Street countless times against a bunch of different cars and had more experience than Louis did.

Louis weight 120-130lbs
Passengers: Two passengers His brother weight 130-140lbs, His brothers wife weight 120-130lbs
Stock Exhaust
Stock Clutch
E-manage
HKS BOV

VS

Rich weight 180-230lbs
Passengers: ONE his Girlfriend weight 120-130lbs
Borla axle back exhaust
ZPI clutch
ZPI 9 PSI Supercharger Pulley
ZPI Crank Pulley
DC Sports Header
Injen Intake


Poor driver..... You be the judge. If the addition of an E-manage to the Stage 0 is all it takes to make it walk on a Heavily modded S/C'er...that's sad. Especially when you have 2 passengers in your car.

Simplyscion

why is that fact? Cause you have one video showing that the s/c gets beat? If you ask me, thats nothing more than an opinion just like I have my opinion about the s/c vs stage 0. Just because your the king of videos on SL doesnt mean that everything you say is Gods spoken word Travis. So far we have +1 supercharger and +1 stage 0...that doesnt equate to Stage 0>S/C...Im sorry but one race doesnt equal enough real world data to make a statement like that. Like I said, your entitled to your opinion as am I...and please leave break boosting out of the equation, as its not possible on a supercharger to do that. A fair headsup race will determine the outcome.

Mr_Meaty

Oh, I remember that race, rhythm.
I don't think that is a fair example. Yeah, the turbo had more passengers which should give the SC the advantage, but you said yourself that it was on the way back fron an event, they weren't planning on racing, it was just a spur of the moment thing and whatnot.
I just don't think that particular race is a good example to use to prove your point.

The only way to settle this would be to have another basic SC vs. another basic stage 0 race. Preferable at a track with time slips.

rhythmnsmoke

Dude, it does not take a rocket scientist to know that it takes a poor driver in a Stage 0 to loose to a Stock S/C'er. It's fact because Louis car can walk away from a Heavily modded S/C'er, so a straight out of the box S/C'er makes what 187-200whp? And like 150wtq? And you going to sit here and tell me that its going to keep up with an out of the box Stage 0...sorry, that's not happening.


Louis did not Brake Boost when he raced Rich. It was his first time driving a turbo car, he does not know how to do that. Therefore, according to you, It was a fair race. Not to mention...why is brake boosting not fair anyway. If that's the way we race turbos....that's the way we race turbos. Sorry if you think that's not fair, but that's how its done down here. S/C'er does not have to wait to spool, so why should we? That's like saying it's not fair if the other guy has a bigger gun. It's never going to be JUST the driver when racing, unless we all have the same setup.


Proof is in the pudding. It took all those mods to keep up with a Stage 0 that has an E-manage on it (as you like to commonly point out, like its some UBER additional mod). I will put $50 on it that says if you look at the tune on Louis car that it's in the 10's A/F ratio wise. There is no wideband on it, so it's tuned rich and safe off the brain, and not wideband. Don't make me start diggin out S/C'er runs with like Nitrous hooked on, and running the same times as Louis car. Here's one for giggles:

A S/C'er on SLICKS + 9 PSI pulley = Same time Louis does on Street tires

rhythmnsmoke

Never said it was from an event. When have you ever known me to NOT plan a race. We planned this from Day 1. We were on our way back from a cruise to ZPI. Louis was up there getting it installed the day before the cruise, came home, and then drove back up there with us with his passengers tagging along. You just said so yourself, the S/C'er had the advantage due to extra passengers in the Stage 0 car. It still lost. So, explain to me how that's so if it's faster? It had the advantage remember.

Oh trust me, there will be more vids to come of the two. Louis Clutch is slipping now from racing so much. After clutch install, I will get the both of them on the track. But what difference would it make, you will say that the vid is invalid as well, and make up some excuse as to why he lost. How about this, I will even drive both cars (if allowed to), and I will make a pass in the modded S/C'er and the Stage 0. BUT....then again, you will probably say I drove the S/C'er poorly and the Stage 0 like it should be. So, hey, have your own opinion, I will keep posting vids weather you like the outcome or not.

fairladyz541

So................I love my xB and RS3.0.................

The RS is my moms and the xB is mine but I drive both.......................

rhythmnsmoke

Your mom is rolling the B...NICE! What she look like?

Mr_Meaty

No, he said the tC is his moms. HE is rolling the B.
So did you get the LSD in that B yet?

fairladyz541

I have the return fuel system being done thursday and the LSD will be sometime in July.

rhythmnsmoke

Oh, my bad, got it backwards. That makes her even cooler though...

Brett

how is louis' car "out of the box"?

rhythmnsmoke

More updates coming as soon as he puts in a new clutch. Clutch is slipping, so he stopped racing until he makes another ZPI run for an upgrade.

But out of the box, his Stage 0 runs what a Tnetics kit has been known to run on average. Which is somewhere in the mid/low 14's on street tires. Louis runs Low 14's on street tires with the Stage 0. Comparable to what a stock 350z does on the factory street trim setup (full weight meaning).

Brett

his stage 0 is not out of the box.

this is what a "out of the box" stage 0 comes with. (ref. zpiracing.net)

MHI/ZPI spec Big 16g
ZPIracing External 38mm Wastegate
Stainless charge piping
4 ply couplers
Stainless Manifold
Oil pan fittings for oil return
All fuel and timing tuning already complete
Polished piping

show me where you see e-manage, injectors, bov, engine limiter....

give me a car with a t-netics kit, mbc, and exaust, and i will show you mid 13's at least.

rhythmnsmoke

Louis does not have injectors (Second time I've heard someone say that, and I'm still trying to figure out where/who ever said he had injectors). Engine Limiter was just added only 2-3 weeks ago (he has been boosted for 2-3 months now), and it's not a power addition. It helps in the suspension department. Emanage is not going to add gobbs of HP when it's tuned rich. BOV, again, not a power addition and does not effect the outcome of your times at the track.

Last time I checked, mbc and exhaust don't come with a Tnetics kit? To which Louis has neither. So again, as previously stated, He runs what on average Tnetics kits have been putting down at the track on street tires.

Are you just in the mood to argue or something?

You argue that it has an E-manage on it. Well, what does that say when he runs comparable times to that of a kit that has Intecooler, Injectors, Fuel management and two more lbs of boost?

Stone128

It's amazing how defensive everyone gets when the turbo vs. supercharger conversation comes up again and again. Its also amazing how many times I see the same people thread jack just to discuss how their turbo is > than you. Going in straight line is well and good...but run an autocross course and see if you can really drive. Lets stop the nonsense with "oh well he had 3 passengers and oh he had 1 yada yada yada". Sound like a bunch of teenagers...

Brett

"Engine Limiter was just added only 2-3 weeks ago, and it's not a power addition"

it helps alot with e.t.'s

and you of all people should know by now that im allways in the mood to argue. the day that someone runs a 13.99 or lower on a stage 0 kit, is the day i'll be impresed by it. until that day comes. its just another 14 second kit.

and its not my fault that people with t-netics kits cant drive their cars

rhythmnsmoke

Weight adversely effects performance. And if you were to search around, you will also find me stating that I would much rather have a S/C'er on an small technical course such as that of AutoX'ing. The advantage I would give to the S/C'er in that particular form of racing.



So does the Ingalls ETD, Drag radials, ET Streets, Slicks...etc. But is any of that a powerr addition such as Meth/Water injection? Does any of those mods change the amount of HP coming out of the engine that you would see on the dyno?

We are having different thought process here on this one.



We are not disagreeing, but merely seeing different ends of the spectrum. You would be impressed when he (or anyone else serious about racing) runs a 13.99 with a Stage 0 kit. I'm easily impressed that it can run right next to a kit that is better equipped and considered "a full kit".

Touching back on the E-manage for a sec. It's not like it added 20+whp or something, as he does not flat out KILL Rich's Heavily modded S/C'er which put down 238whp on the dyno. So it's safe to say that he is still some where in the Mid/High 230hp range which is what ZPI rates the kit (then again, Louis did have 2 extra people vs. Rich's 1). Now if he had a wideband, and it was dyno tuned to 11's/12's A/F ratio, then I see your point in the "not out of the box because it has E-manage" argument.

Brett

if i wanted to drive through some oarnge road cone course in a parking lot, i would sign up for a drivers ed class. autocross is for people that dont want to be shamed at the dragstrip.

Stone128

I'm not bashing drag racing by any means, however I feel a much better judge of a car/driver is on a course where turning is involved. Take a zpi tc and a s/c tc and run each a lap around a track with the same driver and then we'll see.

Brett

lets just let this one rest travis. get your boys clutch in, put your drag radials on his car, and post a 13 second pass.

p.s. if anyone reading this has a t-netics kit, and is running 13's. by all means please speak up.