rcruz2525

Hi everyone, for those of you that don’t remember me I was the guy using the Haltech computer for the scion. Just waned to tell you all that the Haltech did not work on the scion at all. We test 2 different Haltechs and nothing good came out of it. (E8 and the E11v2). Yes we wasted our time and money on that garbage. We are going with an AEM computer; we should have it next week. Anyway we decided to take the scion back to stock computer and take it to the dyno.
We did 260rwhp @ 6lb of boost, we measure the fuel/air ratio with a wide band oxygen sensor and some other devices and in my scion tc I was running lean anyware above 6lb of boost. If I get some time I will provide a copy of the dyno sheet tomorrow.

Rick C.

engifineer

wow RWHP, on a FWD car

danman04x

no way you got 260whp on 6 pounds of boost

engifineer

Yeah, I was waiting for that too. You might be seeing 240 BHP at that, with a decent tune. Maybe 260 BHYeah, I was waiting for that too. You might be seeing 240 BHP at that, with a decent tune. Maybe 260 BHP with the intercooler. But untill I see it I wont believe those numbers. The thing is the dyno numbers could be from a different car or even just plain incorrect. Get it running and show us some time slips and I will believe you.

rcruz2525

huuum, you are more than welcome to see it for your self. I live in Miami Fl. My tc will be at the scion exposed 2.0 show this Saturday in the Dolphins Stadium in a booth call shining monkey if you want to take a look at it. I will have the dyno there for you.

Rick C.

Munch

And people wonder why people never want to post details of their setups here. I knew nothing good would come out of this. He was just showing his setup ,which was custom built. Just because its not a particular kit built by a know company like Turbonetics or Dezod, it didn't make good numbers? Typical scionlife. RWHP means Real Wheel Horse Power for those who don't use the term.he's running a GT35R so its easy to hit that number on low boost. That turbo is good for over 30psi. My friend is running the same turbo on his Evo with alky injection pushing 30psi.

Simplyscion

Munch is absolutely correct....6 psi on a GT35R is a lot diff than 6 psi on a 16g or on a T3/T4....Hey, you talkin about Vinny's EVO Tell that slacker to come out tonight...I havent seen his a$$ in a minute

Munch

Yeah Big Vin's built EVO. The car is a monster period. Scares the crap outta me everythime I go for a ride in it . I'll see if he will come out, but I doubt it.

engifineer

^^Well, everywhere I have ever seen it is is REAR WHEEL HP. So that is the common definition of the acronym.

second, no one put down his setup. But those numbers blow away anything I have seen on the tC for 6lbs of boost. You are talking about an increase of 6 psi (approx 40%) creating a HP increase of approx 62% on a stock ECU that is leaning out just above 6psi, so not even an optimal tune for boost to start with. Even with an intercooler that is hard to swallow without hard proof.

To the original poster, I think it is a nice setup and am not bashing it. I just have a hard time with those figures.

engifineer

And other than efficiency, the amount of boost is the same for either turbo, so you arent gaining THAT much between the two other than that and a better power curve, which will definitely mean better track performance, but will still yeild the same peak power on the dyno, again other than the efficiency differences.

Munch

I guess you learn something new everyday then .

Read up on the GT35R and you will see how it puts down big numbers so easy .

It's not my car so it really doesn't matter. He has a nice setup and I applaud him

Simplyscion

soooo....theoretically speaking your saying that a T20 at 6 psi is gonna yield similar results to a GT35 running at 6 psi cause its the same psi and theres not gonna be that much difference in the power output other than power delivery??


I think Im already done with this thread

engifineer

I too applaud him for the setup.

But I hate to inform you, but physics dont easilly bend. If two turbos produce the same amount of boost then there are two main factors that can make one better than the other: efficiency and the range of the power curve.

The first will have effect on the peak power, the second will have NO effect on the peak power, but will have the effect you are looking for: performance. So yes, a turbo that spools sooner and provides a wider band of power will walk off from one that produces a shorter power band. But on the dyno you will still see the same peak power.

Once the boost is introduced to the manifold, it does not care what turbo it came from. The only thing it sees is the restrictive losses from the turbo (part of the efficiency), the temp of the incoming charge (again an effect of efficiency and intercooling method) and the A/F mixture regulated by the ECU (which is less than optimal given what he told us). So please, if you can explain your point, do so other than saying "That turbo is awesome and puts out big numbers". We are having a technical discussion here, so please address it with numbers and the physics behind it if you have an argument. If you have a valid point I will not hesitate to agree, I am not trying to start a pi$$ing contest. If there is a VAST difference in efficiency between it and the others being used currently then it could make the difference. But even then you have to take into account the points he made about the tuning.

Again, I am not bashing at all. I think it is a cool setup, but we all know that dyno's can be way off at times (just look at some of the numbers and the timeslips from the same car). I dont doubt at all it performs well, and will perfrom very well once he gets the proper tuning in place. I also look forward to seeing the progress from him.

Joe_Dezod

So is he saying that a fire hose will displace the same amount of water as a garden hose if the water flowed at the same psi?

engifineer

No that is not what I said.. please read all of my posts.

Joe_Dezod

I posted while you were typing all that...

Sure efficiency plays a huge role in this, which is why Paul and I spent so much time on our kit. But CFM is just as important as PSI on a turbo. It comes down to how efficient the boost is coming in, and the shear volume of air can greatly affect your hp numbers.

A larger turbo naturally has higher CFM and TYPICALLY produces higher peak hp numbers, even though it may not be the fastes setup at the drags or road race course. Finding a turbo that has the widest power band possible, and still offering enough peak hp to pull on the straights is key.

Charade_Detomasso

You are forgetting about the amount of air a turbo flows as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nice looking setup, congrats if you really got 260whp on 6 lbs of boost. Sorry you could not get the Haltech to work, the are actually some of the best aftermarket ECU's out there

taek

Mmm i need to get a turbo... haha

i wanna join in this chat lol

engifineer

^^ Point well taken on the volume. My concern is that with the small amount of boost and the bigger issue (from what it sounds from his post) of tuning in this case it makes it hard to believe it is producing that amount of power. Again, I could be fooled, but anyone that knows me knows I dont take any numbers without a grain of salt

The gt35r is a very efficient unit from what I know of it, so that will give it a big advantage.

But, I dont evey argue to make enemies, and those that get pi$$ed at me for aguing.. .well, grow up I also always make it clear that I am not putting someone down or bashing them. But I can state my opinion and either find out I am right or learn something new by being proven wrong. Either is fine with me.

thanks for the input joe

Joe_Dezod

I do agree that the tuning can make all the difference in the world. When we started tuning we started at -12 degrees and ran a 10:1 AFR. We made just over 200whp. As soon as we added a degree of timing it would go up VERY quickly, 5-10hp per degree of timing. We left things at -3 to -5 depending on boost, and ran a 12 for an afr and now we're pushing 271whp and 292wtq.

My only concern on the kit is engine management.