291WHP 07 spec. Greddy + Ripp Mods
10-24-2007, 12:08 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by recliner15
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by recliner15
I dont understand how 260 ft-lb torque is a low number? I spin my tires enough as it is.. not complaining.
The exhaust is perfect for my setup. Even if it wasnt.. I cannot justify spending $500 on a 2.5" exhaust and a few months later spending another $500 on the same thing and taking a huge loss
The exhaust is perfect for my setup. Even if it wasnt.. I cannot justify spending $500 on a 2.5" exhaust and a few months later spending another $500 on the same thing and taking a huge loss
The 2az commonly produces more TQ than it does HP, or right at the same. Your dyno is SOO far off from every other boosted tC that has come before you. If you search around, you will find just about every dyno you come across, having MORE torque at the wheels than they do HP. That's why we love our Scions so much, and talk **** to Honda boys. Because we have the TQ to back it up. From my knowledge, it is not until like 500+whp Digit numbers will you start seeing the HP numbers creep away from TQ numbers.
Take a look, all of the turbo cars (S/C'er tC's are the exception because they produce a lot less tQ than their hp), you will find everyone producing more tQ than they do HP. Anywhere from 230whp on up to 450whp. All the Turboed tC's have more tQ.
You dynoed 291whp. Your torque should be 300+lbs, not 260. I believe again, this is due to having to large of an exhaust system for that HP level. Now, if you plan on going 400+whp, then don't worry about it. You can benefit from it LATER. But as of right NOW, your exhaust is basically to big for your power.
Umm...that doesn't explain Low torque #'s man. Brand of the Kit is irrelevant, the GReddy kit don't make boost any different than any other kit out there, and I assure you, every other tC has more tQ than HP. 300whp is a thing of the past with the tC community. Tons of 300whp tC's running around. But You so far are the only one I've ever seen with a 40lbs deficit in torque compared to his HP.
I'm not coming down on you by any means, so don't take it that way. I'm trying to understand why your torque is low. And in turn trying to help you trouble shoot to get you more torque. So, don't take it the wrong way.
10-24-2007, 12:12 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by RSracer
What everyone has said about 3" exhausts being too big are completely wrong! A less restrictive exhaust can never be bad for a turbo car. Turbos love bigger exhausts becuase they can flow more freely. Your car is going to produce more power and spool much faster w/ a big exhaust becuase it will take less energy to produce the desired psi. 
Correction, no one is saying his exhaust is WRONG. Just that it's causing his low torque numbers. He is not pushing enough power to utilize the larger exhaust. What happens when you have to big of an exhaust for your power? The exhaust gases exiting the car are allowed to cool down to much. Therefore causing the loss in torque. If it was a smaller 2.5 inch exhaust, the gases would flow tighter, and hotter, and allow his car to have the torque it "should" be pushing.
Again, is exhaust is not WRONG, just not efficient for the power he is putting out.
10-24-2007, 12:18 AM
#43
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well every car does need a certain amount of backpressure which is what forpinks was trying to say I think... but on the exhaust size debate that all depends on the mods... I wouldn't say his tq numbers are bad, not by any means, but they are low compared to other boosted tC's (still a lot more than hondas!) The only way to see the difference would compare the dyno numbers with a 2.5" exhaust and dyno numbers with a 3" exhaust... you could also add in the factor of spool time, which the turbo will spool faster with the 3".... it is a debate that will never be settled haha...
10-24-2007, 02:01 AM
#47
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with a 3" inch exhaust he doe loose tq. i've lost tq after changing to a 3" inch from the down pipe to the exhaust. i had more tq when it was only 2 1/4 but lower hp numbers
so the number look about right
so the number look about right
10-24-2007, 10:14 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by forpinks
^^^ NO! the exhaust gases gets out way too fast for the turbo engine to produce ample neck-snapping torque/restriction.
That is bad unless you like driving cars with high end power and low tq. ( also, restriction has something to do with torque.)
That is bad unless you like driving cars with high end power and low tq. ( also, restriction has something to do with torque.)
10-24-2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by recliner15
Originally Posted by forpinks
^^^ NO! the exhaust gases gets out way too fast for the turbo engine to produce ample neck-snapping torque/restriction.
That is bad unless you like driving cars with high end power and low tq. ( also, restriction has something to do with torque.)
That is bad unless you like driving cars with high end power and low tq. ( also, restriction has something to do with torque.)
How much "proof" do you need.
- Comes from the factory with "more" torque than HP.
- 99.999% of tC's with turbo's produce "more" torque than HP. (you make up the .1% that don't).
- It's pretty solid evidence.
10-24-2007, 04:57 PM
#51
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It is not written in stone, it doesnt need to be. Its about physics, and using common sense.
Like I said before "nice numbers", but I think you would be getting much higher TQ numbers with a 2.5" exhaust, and unless you plan on building 450WHP+ tC 3" really isnt necessary.
Always remember TQ wins races not HP.
Like I said before "nice numbers", but I think you would be getting much higher TQ numbers with a 2.5" exhaust, and unless you plan on building 450WHP+ tC 3" really isnt necessary.
Always remember TQ wins races not HP.
10-24-2007, 11:42 PM
#52
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tq gets you off the line and hp gets you down the track.... I believe that was the saying....
DaGreat1... are those a/f numbers correct cause you are kinda all over the place and look pretty lean at redline... over 12 it looks like, not that safe for stock internals...
DaGreat1... are those a/f numbers correct cause you are kinda all over the place and look pretty lean at redline... over 12 it looks like, not that safe for stock internals...
10-25-2007, 08:00 PM
#54
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^^^ Are you making an alibi?
The exhaust really has something to do with the loss of precious torque, but it somehow gives tuners more high-end WHP. Still, it really sucks when you can't get off the line fast.
I felt the TQ kick gone when my friend and I "butt dynoed" an old CRX turbo when we changed the old 20 year old exhaust and the cheap muffler on it to a larger straight 2.5 and an HKS N1 style muffler, the turbo spooled quicker but it lost that "back pressure" that gives the nice kick at start before, now it just gives us the power to "catch up" when we tried playing with a modded basic Impreza, he got us real quick and we just got them when the engine hits 7K RPM. (The feeling of just catching up sucks for real and makes you feel like a loser!)
The exhaust really has something to do with the loss of precious torque, but it somehow gives tuners more high-end WHP. Still, it really sucks when you can't get off the line fast.
I felt the TQ kick gone when my friend and I "butt dynoed" an old CRX turbo when we changed the old 20 year old exhaust and the cheap muffler on it to a larger straight 2.5 and an HKS N1 style muffler, the turbo spooled quicker but it lost that "back pressure" that gives the nice kick at start before, now it just gives us the power to "catch up" when we tried playing with a modded basic Impreza, he got us real quick and we just got them when the engine hits 7K RPM. (The feeling of just catching up sucks for real and makes you feel like a loser!)
10-25-2007, 08:40 PM
#55
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Nice number. I need to go back and retune now that I have my MAP sensor... i need to install and retune.... cuz last time I went there I still had a bad o2 sensor.
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