AEM F/IC TC Tuning
08-30-2009, 05:01 AM
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AEM F/IC TC Tuning
I consider myself an amateur at tuning but have had some pretty decent results from playing with my personal car, not other peoples. If there is anyone that can give a basic "start from scratch" method to building F/IC tunes for boosted applications that would be great. I've read the sticky on setting it up and the general synopsis and logic but a more detailed explanation so I (and everyone else) can get a full understanding of how a start to finish "rough draft" tune should be made. For example, different cars require you to start with tuning different maps from what I've read. I figure you start with MAF and O2 but does fuel and then timing come next etc etc etc. I am requesting that professional tuners not "give away" their secrets but give some guidance on how to set up a safe street tune so we can get to work and back and save up money to take it to the pro's! Some basics might include (TC Specific btw) how much timing vs boost to pull, injector response time, and general tips that have stumped you in the past that you found a solution for. Thanks for all the help that may come from this post!
08-30-2009, 05:46 AM
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ill throw in one tip...
the general rule of thumb for timeing
supercharged= 2degree of timeing retard for every 1psi of boost
turbo= 1degree of timeing retard for every 1psi of boost
n20= after 75 shot 1degree of timeing retard for every 75shot after (example: 75 shot on a tc= no timeing retard, 100shot on a tc=1 degree of timeing retard.
thes are just general rules with a big safety margin and in some cases may be too much retard.
personaly i have only taken out 3.25 @ 8psi (22.7 absolute) and tapper it down to .75 at 0psi (14.7 absolute)
keep in mind that with weather changes you need to keep a safety margin when it comes to timeing or adjust your timeing depending on ambiant temps. example: -3.25 @ 8psi ambiant temps=70f versus -4.55 @ 8psi ambiant temps= 101f
the general rule of thumb for timeing
supercharged= 2degree of timeing retard for every 1psi of boost
turbo= 1degree of timeing retard for every 1psi of boost
n20= after 75 shot 1degree of timeing retard for every 75shot after (example: 75 shot on a tc= no timeing retard, 100shot on a tc=1 degree of timeing retard.
thes are just general rules with a big safety margin and in some cases may be too much retard.
personaly i have only taken out 3.25 @ 8psi (22.7 absolute) and tapper it down to .75 at 0psi (14.7 absolute)
keep in mind that with weather changes you need to keep a safety margin when it comes to timeing or adjust your timeing depending on ambiant temps. example: -3.25 @ 8psi ambiant temps=70f versus -4.55 @ 8psi ambiant temps= 101f
08-30-2009, 04:22 PM
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08-30-2009, 04:26 PM
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Thanks crush. That's roughly what I've been aiming for on my street tune but I gradually make changes so the ECU doesn't freak out. Plus, I get my scangauge II today so I'll finally be able to monitor fuel trims. Keep it coming guys!
08-31-2009, 03:49 AM
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I would not recommend using someone else's timing table.. there are so many variables that are in the equation that it's better to be safe than sorry.
Tuning timing is best done on a dyno. Start very conservative and increase timing gradually and watch how hp/tq increases. Do several pulls at each setting but make sure to check your spark plugs before each timing increase. Once you see white spots on the plugs, back off the timing a degree or so and leave the timing there.
Tuning timing is best done on a dyno. Start very conservative and increase timing gradually and watch how hp/tq increases. Do several pulls at each setting but make sure to check your spark plugs before each timing increase. Once you see white spots on the plugs, back off the timing a degree or so and leave the timing there.
08-31-2009, 04:19 AM
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I would not recommend using someone else's timing table.. there are so many variables that are in the equation that it's better to be safe than sorry.
Tuning timing is best done on a dyno. Start very conservative and increase timing gradually and watch how hp/tq increases. Do several pulls at each setting but make sure to check your spark plugs before each timing increase. Once you see white spots on the plugs, back off the timing a degree or so and leave the timing there.
Tuning timing is best done on a dyno. Start very conservative and increase timing gradually and watch how hp/tq increases. Do several pulls at each setting but make sure to check your spark plugs before each timing increase. Once you see white spots on the plugs, back off the timing a degree or so and leave the timing there.
while messing with the timeing can be a short cut to bigger numbers (exp on the butt dyno) it can be the quickest way to a blown engine.
iv never used the spark plugs to determine the timeing (good idea btw) however i do suggest a knock gauge or other knock reading methods to tune your timing.
08-31-2009, 05:20 AM
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that one is kinda tough... the whole reason for going to a colder plug is becouse the combustion chamber temps are higher with boost. In order for your plugs to work properly they need to stay at a certain temp. Go too cold and the plugs will become fouled, too hot and you could have bigger problems. plugs need to maintain this temp to so that deposits will be burned off the plug tip. sounds simple enough right but how do you figure out how hot your combustion chamber is? you could go with perhaps an egt gauge to find out but there is a difference between combustion chamber temps and exhoust gas temps.
thats about the best that i can explain it, here is a site i got most of that info from
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...2.asp?mode=nml
thats about the best that i can explain it, here is a site i got most of that info from
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...2.asp?mode=nml
08-31-2009, 05:44 AM
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thats what most use anyways....the best way to tell imho is to look at the plug condition...if for some reason they always look fouled and your a/f are in good order then its prolly a good idea to go to a 1step colder plug instead of a two step. if your engine seems to be knocking and your a/f are good then maybe need to go a step higher like a 3step colder plug.
08-31-2009, 01:29 PM
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Injector response time should be figured out according to your injectors!
As far as tuning a o2 map, using a scan gauge or something monitor fuel trims is the easyest way to start off! but if you do not have one, very small changes should be made with 2-3 pulls per change. You should always adjust fuel and o2 not just one or the other!
start with 1 degree of timing per boost pulled, then once you have that done. tune your afr's and slowly introduce timng back in and tune fuel accordingly!
08-31-2009, 01:35 PM
#20
anyone using any datalogger to see the actual timing using you are having while on boost? I know the aem fic shows only the amount of timing pulled not the actual timing the ECU+fic is giving..