Verbal diarrhoea







Methods to the madness and myths dispelled

As plenty of you know we released our Alpha Series components several months ago and received a lot of inquiries (even more recently too) about why we only released a manifold, downpipe, dump tube and turbo assembly. The answer is quite simple for sure. It really lies in that fact that MANY customers did not have the money or knowledge base initially to make a 500+whp car in the beginning and ended up buying an entry level kit or any ebay kit or something.

Flash forward several months to this same guy now making 300whp on his ____ Kit and it's just not enough for what he/she wants. So now they have to look into upgrading components. The first components they look into upgrading are the manifold and turbo! So, with those items being the heart and soul of the system, we figured this would be an excellent opportunity to offer these parts that can be made to hook up to just about any existing turbo system out there. Let's face it, if $ where not an issue, you wouldn't mind buying a whole new kit for $5K+, but for 99% of Scion owners, it is an issue. There is no sense in penalizing you for starting out small and wanting more by making you buy a whole new kit. Chances are, you can reuse plenty of your own parts like your intercooler, BOV, piping etc. Reusing those components save you $. THAT is why we offer the Alpha Series as a turbo assembly and not a complete kit.

Could we offer the system as a complete kit? Sure 100%! However, it does take out the element of customization, which this whole brand of Scion thrives on. The commercials used to say "customize yours today..." The dealerships push all of these accessories to make the car more of yours than just another Scion on the road. Not only that, how many people are running around on here with 100% true bolt-on, original, un-modified kits? Not many! Most people that we speak to say that they have a custom GReddy kit, custom kit with a TT manifold, custom ebay kit, custom S1.....The list goes on and on!

So, in the end, we offer a turbo assembly that makes upgrading a no-brainer. It offers full true v-band technology with a stainless steel turbine housing that will not rust and is approximately 33% lighter than PTE cast iron turbines used on other kits running around on here. TiAL was the innovator of this v-band inlet turbine technology and that is whom we use and why.





We use a true Garrett GT3582 dual ball bearing turbocharger. This turbo has remarkable throttle response when mated with our manifold. Stephen on here has it on his RL TA tC and said this about throttle response:

Stephen testified to making a full 18 PSI by 4000 RPMS. So for those whom think their 6262 or 60-1 is the cat's meow, might want to reconsider that after reading these results. The man was making 460ft/lbs of torque by 4000 RPMS with 3500rpms left to rev! Talk about a wicked power band. So, fear not about weak power bands with this 35R. The power is there for sure. Stephen had more on his plate because his tuner was not even close to done, nor had played with VVT. So there was for sure more power to be made.

So, with all of this being said and Don and I fielding about 3-5 calls per day about this kit, I hope this puts things into perspective and sheds light on the topic. Any further questions or comments, please feel free to post or ask. Thanks for your time SL!

 

Best kit so far. And by far the best mean looking manifold on the market. If I had the money ill buy that manifold even though mine is custom.

 

how bout a polished one, i wanna see

 

I haven't done a polished one yet. 2K black we have!





Pics courtesy of silvrtc300

 

these words sound shockingly familiar paul :p

 

Another thing to consider about the Stainless steel Tial housing vs the Cast Iron housing from PTE is performance.

Stainless steel handles the higher temperatures better than cast iron. What does that mean? Well the properties of stainless steel are better suited for wear and heat. In respects to wear. Cast iron has a lower melting point than that of stainless steel. It radiates heat from it faster than stainless steel. The stainless housing will resist cracking from heat and vibration induced fatigue. It is also important to note that because stainless is better at retaining heat in the gas flow that this will keep more energy in the gas flow to be used in spooling the turbo rather than being absorbed by the housing and radiating into the engine bay increasing under hood temps. The stainless housings are investment cast as well which means the internal surfaces are smooth like a baby's butt. Small detail but again something that will resist the absorption of heat and lower turbulence and prevent carbon build up.

All this translates into a higher performing product and a better setup for you.

 

love that manifold design

 

umm so why would a stainless steel MANIFOLD be more prone to crack tha a cast iron? Due to extreme temps and vibration. Wouldnt the same follow suit for any application not just manifold?

 

That's a good question and there are a few answers to that.

1. Material used. In applications that are going to be subjected to this kind of abuse you can't use just any 304 SS you must use 304L. The "L" stands for low carbon. When stainless is welded it is heated to the point of melting which can lower the martensitic properties of the material. It brings the carbon content out of the material and mends with the filler material and you can get an area that is typically stronger but affected by corrosion. So welds can rust and fatigue after a while. Another contributing factor could be that the person who welded the pipe performed a fusion weld, which is the process of joining the two metals without using filler material. This is not typically suited for a high stress application. This will most assuredly crack. One thing that sucks about stainless steel for applications like manifolds is that 304SS will expand and flex 50 times more than say normal 1080 mild steel. So movement can take place. If the parts can't really move (such as if they have been welded) they will stress and crack at the weakest point. Using stainless steel is still preferred over mild steel for such an application because of it's heat properties the only real challenge is designing bracing that will allow for the movement and limit stress. However when it comes to a cast manifold or turbine housing, this is not a concern because it was cast into one simple, non moving hunk.

2. Manifold Flanges: Head flanges must be straight. A head flange ideally starts out as a straight, flat, true piece of metal. When you start attaching weld elbows to a flange during the welding process you are inducing immense heat into the flange. Most people tack parts together and then finish weld a manifold when its in one piece. When this happens you have a straight flange that is not connected on multiple points by weld elbows which makes it one piece. Well as we said, stainless expands and moves when heated. It tweaks. So when you finish weld a manifold you weld all the elbows together and it becomes one strong single piece. The only problem is that you have induced so much heat into the head flange that you have caused it to warp. When you are finished with the welding process you have to re-straighten the flanges. You do this by decking them either by setting it up in a mill or by taking it to a belt sander. The belt sander is the fastest and easiest way and normally when done provides the best sealing surface. If you don't do this, the flange will be warped, when you bolt a manifold with a warped flange onto a head and tighten it down you forcibly straighten the flange and put stress on the manifold by pulling it in two directions. Think of trying to straighten a curved bow. Where do you think it will crack? The point of highest stress. Now of course this is only talking about one source of physical stress placed on the manifold. Lets not forget about the rocking of the engine and flex of the giant moment arm which is the exhaust. That is why there must be flex in an exhaust. To isolate the largest part of the exhaust from acting on the hard mounted parts of the engine. This is one reason you see stock exhaust manifolds with many braces. To prevent this force from damaging parts. Back to the flanges, we deck all flanges on our belt sander here in shop before the manifolds leave, just wanted to make that clear. ;)

I hope this helped.

Keep in mind when talking about a piece that is cast. We are talking about a non complicated non moving single piece. Where as a manifold is a sum of it's parts. Many pieces go into making a manifold what it is. Unless of course it is a cast manifold. Then you're only real concern is flange flatness and material used. All cast iron manifolds will crack. This is fact. In time. It doesn't matter whether it is a turbo manifold or not (although turbo manifolds generally have a shorter life) The main thing that affects the life of them is the amount of unburned fuel that flows through them and how hot they get from running so rich and not enough timing. Extreme heat cycling will affect a manifold greatly and cause serious issues over time. Stainless steel in the varieties of 304L and 321 are much more suited for the use in these extreme applications. They will have a much better chance of standing the test of time, whether it's a race car or a street car.

 

Don you and Paul need to write a scion TC shop manual for dummies!!! Lol

 

i would assume manifolds that are proned to cracking are made with thin steal

 

id buy! would give me something to read on planes to make me less dumb when it comes to boosting and everything

 

I agree.

 

The most prone are the ebay style that are made with 16 gauge 304SS. Not only is it cheap 304 but it is .065" thickness. Stainless or not it won't hold up to that rigor.

The only stainless you can use to make a manifold like that is 321 and it better be braced.

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. It's great to see a vendor that doesn't assume that all their customers are brainless idiots, not to mention one that really knows what they're talking about. A lot of people don't realize just how many variations of "steel" there are, or how much the fabrication process can affect your final result. My job involves a bit of mettalurgy, and a lot of knowledge about how steel fatigues and stresses over time (I use ultrasound to test steel for casting defects and stress cracks). Knowing that there's a manufacturer out there that pays attention to all the tiny yet important details is like a breath of fresh air.

If I ever decide to go turbo, I'm going with you guys.

Thanks!
~Laken

 

can i have it

 

Thanks for the kind words Laken. We have your back when you are ready.

Yes you may!

 

excellent post don

 

Correct to an extent Don. This depends on the metals being conjoined in the welding process. If you are welding 304L to 304L then there is a stainless filler rod which is used and is 308L (this does not rust). However, if you are conjoining mild steel to 304L, then you must use 309L filler rod, which can rust and weaken the integrity of the weld itself.

To further note: A fusion weld will be weaker for sure than any and all welds done with filler rod. Truth be told, the welded material with filler rod is stronger than the two mating materials (assuming it's done properly and prepped properly). The chemical and heat altering process strengthens the two conjoined materials to make a very strong metal.

 

I know this is kinda late but is the gt35 only option like you cant do a GT3076r?