crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

oil pressure gauge saved my butt once so it was worth its weight in gold imho....but some just prefer to not run one...to each their own.

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

one cause of blown engine too is increased wear.. thought their system is properly setup with good tune, eventually internal has to give up after boosting for a while... but most of the time its a crappy tune..

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

at least that's what most people here claim their tunes are, conservative.. even though they run pretty sick hp/tq.. lol some back it up with their afrs but keeps their mouth shut with their ignition timing lol..

some tuners too just tell their customers that their tune is conservative and still with good numbers (in fact its not), well tell you what, that conservative tune will blow your motor..

ecko04

Well that is a common misconception, what some people think conservative is others would disagree. The entire concept of conservative is open to interpretation. That's why people have been saying again and again to go with a reputable tuner and if in doubt let P-tuning or Dezod tune it up for ya.

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

amen brotha ace...preach on...

i have seen it befor....tuner tells customer its a real conservative tune and he was able to pull great numbers....in reality the fuel maps may be conservative but the ign is hot as hell.... when i say hot i mean no timing was pulled at all even for 8psi...playing with the ign timing is hella easy way to gain power but can be one of the quickest way to a new engine.... many factors must be considered first before either advancing or doing minimal ign retard (no retard at all) such as ambiant temp, fuel, ect.

ecko04

I think we are back onto the list again:

7. running too hot of an ign map
8. too aggressive of a tune

This is where getting to know your tuner, reputable shop and even doing research comes into play.

BlackKnight

To elaborate on whats already been said: proper research on everything you are doing, knowledge of engine principles is a plus to have, good engine management, good tuner, don't use excess sealant on oil pan (this has been and issue for some). Knowing what condition the engine is actually in before boosting i.e. tearing it apart rebuilding it (my friend does this a lot and hasn't had any dumb error from it, no blown issues except for one which was BBK throttle bodies fault). The throttle body dropped a screw in the engine so BBK took responsibility and gave him parts equal to what his work was worth (they couldn't do cash).

Key points you need go by: know condition of engine, research the tuner/shop, research peoples downfalls so you don't do the same, quality engine management, quality turbo kit, fail safes setup, pyrometer, oil pressure gauge, and wideband AFR is a must. It isn't always an aggressive tune that blows a motor from my research if a tuner pulls too much timing than you are running high egt's even with running rich is still bad. A lot of things to consider.

all4degame

Indeed, my motor did blow (or has substantial damage) but I don't think the turbo kit did it. I'm starting to think it was a previous problem I never notice because I never had an oil pressure gauge. I believe that my motor was starved because of the increasevolume flow of oil threw the turbo. I never hot rodded my car with my turbo, I never really did anything to it in my 300 miles of owning it other than drive it around to get my s-pipe fixed. There wasn't enough oil pan sealant in my oil strainer to cause to cause a 20psi drop in oil pressure. I just think I had a fubared oil pump from before the install. The metal shavings on top of my strainer (particles that cannot be sucked up from the pan, but only dropped down) were said to have come from my oil pump said my friend that was a toyota tech. I'm going to be honest with you guys, and say that I was not the nicest person on my baby when I was 16-17. The car took a little abuse with me trying to learn how to drive a stick and being a young driver. This is the only conclusion I can come up with. The turbo only accelerated my problem.

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

if the shavings came from the oil pump this could be good news for the engine. maybe not a lot of damage was done to the bearings, crank, cams, ect...new oil pump and your good to go (best case senerio)....

ecko04

I think your tC is at the same shop mine is at in Alpharetta, GA. Your stroker kit came in the other day, I was there when Dave and Derek were showing it to me. You have a black tC w/ SC plates, FMIC w/ the lower grill removed. Hell, I don't even know if you know what your car looks like anymore since you're away in Iraq. I've probably seen it more times in 2 weeks than you have in a year.

I installed my own Dezod turbo kit but the guys basically ripped it off to do it again and make new piping since they don't like the mild steel that Dezod uses and would rather use aluminum. Setup a blow-thru MAF setup for a better idle. They're eliminating a lot of the couplers so there is a less likelihood of leaks and anything ever coming off.

I'm not familiar with the tuner as he works at the shop next door and isn't there when i'm there. That's pretty much why all my questions have been tuning related.

They do really know their ish' and they're more concerned with customer satisfaction than anything else. I know about 4 SL members that have taken their cars there. Their skyline is amazing, Dave revved that thing up one day and it sounded like a beast.

BlackKnight

Trust me I remember what my baby looks like! lol. After they are done it will be super sleeper status with everything black! lol.

ecko04

LOL, do you know anything about the tuner there?

BlackKnight

Did he show you that my engine is still running after the abuse I put it through?
I had two separate two week trips home and track time still going strong, very good tuner and knowledgeable.

ecko04

No, they were going to but when we went out to look at it there wasn't a wastegate so naturally that was a no go.

I was just wondering should I call up there and let them know mine isn't a race car lol, its my DD so conservative tuning and a ign map that isn't hot would be optimal for me.

Dave knows its my DD, he is so sick of seeing me driving around in the rental Caliber.

Dave wants to up the boost to 10 psi instead of the 8 psi its set to right now.

BlackKnight

Don't sweat it Roy tunes conservative anyway that is his pet peeve.

ecko04

Awesome!! Now I can't wait to get my car back on Thursday.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

People who claim they have a conservative tune are either lying or they just don't know what a conservative tune is. A conservative tune would mean that the tuner dialed in a reliable AFR and actually tuned the car to make less HP. People just say they have a conservative tune because it makes it seem like the car can make a lot more power than it did..which in reality, it can't. The only aspect in tuning that makes power, is timing. The difference between a 12.5:1 AFR (considered optimal by most) and 11:1 is barely anything...HP-wise. The only other factors in making power, are compression, timing and air flow. Since air flow and compression cannot be changed by tuning (air flow technically can by raising boost, but let's assume we're keeping the same boost level), that only leaves us with timing...which is the #1 factor in tuning. An aggressive tune, would have advanced timing somewhere in the map. A standard tune would be milking out the HP until the 'safety' line is about to be crossed. A conservative tune would have 10-15º of timing pulled all across the board...which no one runs. Most tuners will dial in -3-7º of timing, and play with it until they stop making power...this is where it's impossible to match a dyno tune. There is no accurate way to tune the timing map without a dyno.

The thing that will lead to a blown motor, is the timing. Every tuner will tell you that detonation is the #1 cause for blown motors when it comes to this stuff. Just run ~10PSI and get a reliable tune, then maintain it (oil change every 3-3.5K miles and check plugs every 2 oil changes) and you won't run into any issues...assuming you also have all the supporting mods needed (clutch, motor mounts, good tires, etc). If you only have access to 91 octane, I'd say run 8PSI, mostly because 10PSI can and will spike to 11-11.5 unless you're running a high end dual solenoid boost controller.

BlackKnight

You are absolutely correct about timing. Advancing timing too much will cause pre ignition when it turn can and will blow the engine, running too much timing retard is bad as well as it drives up the EGT's and it comes to a point where fuel can't compensate for the extra heat and you blow an engine. When I say conservative I mean he pulls timing and runs really rich AFR.

CarbonXe

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't make any sense to do. Why would you pull more timing (less power) and run a richer AFR (less power) just to have the same 'reliability' aspect as pulling some timing and running a 12.5:1 AFR. 4-9º of timing pulled (mapped out accordingly across the map) and 12.5:1 AFR just seems more logical than 9-15º of timing pulled and 11:1 AFR. If they're both putting out the same EGTs and neither are pushing the limit of detonation...it's the same outcome but slightly less power.

ecko04

Thanks Jon as always!

If the tuner does not lock out the map i'll send it to you so you can look it over for me along with a few others I adamantly trust.

I have access to 92 and 93 octane pump gas. The only place that I know for sure that has 91 is South Carolina but I only get gas there when i'm passing through headed to NC or GA.

I told the guys to leave in the 8.7PSI spring to compensate for any boost spike. I'm going to install a manual boost controller when I make it back in town. It gets tuned today since they have everything fixed on it but i'm in DC right now where the guy currently shot up the Holocaust Museum and I don't get to ATL to pick up the car until tomorrow. I heard some really good things about the tuner, Roy at Lethal Injection, but I have not met him or anything and all i've heard are good things but it never hurts to have it looked over.

If I could make it to P-tuning, probably 12 hours away, or Dezod for tuning that would be optimal but I don't see it happening.

They opted not to install the oil cooler because they didn't see it as being necessary. They suggest I get polyurethane motor mounts, which I ordered so they'll get installed, my clutch has already been upgraded, competition clutch stage 4, I already used Mobil1 Extended Performance 5W20 but now i'm going to step it up to 10W30, I run 2 step colder plugs, I need to get a rear sway bar. I'm trying to do everything necessary or at least I believe necessary.