Revilo

What are the advantages of having a Ball Bearing Turbo?

Kaeon

Faster spool up is one...

THansenite

Less heat build up due to friction.

WFOTC

ball bearing turbos are great for a couple reasons...
1. the ball bearings help reduce spool up time due to less friction of the shaft.
2. also, they cost a good amount more; so, you will be faster because less money in your wallet = less weight.

MIAPLAYA

faster spool up, greater life cycle (it will last longer)

Kaeon

Thats the truth!!!

ERIC-TC

Anyone have a quick table showing basic information of the turbo kits currently on the market for the TC.

I'm looking for who has bearings vs. log-busings and what turbo models offer a water cooled option.

corpan32

does the turbonetics come with a ball bearing turbo?

MIAPLAYA

yes it does. All turbonetics turbo kits include a ceramic ball bearing center section.
More info on that: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turbo_ceramicbb.htm

corpan32

thanx i appreciate it

sleepermod

That's funny......

I remembered an article I read in one of the aftermarket turbo mags/internet forums that auto engineers had done a full-out study and test involving both bearing and non-bearings compressor units and displaced any evidence that ball-bearing turbos actually spun faster because there was less friction.... They stated that there was minimum contact as the shaft would have been suspended on a "layer" of lubricant oil as rotational spin velocity increased. They had claimed that ball-bearing turbos 1st made by IHI (Mitsubishi) was just a brand new marketing plot to earn $$$$ from consumers. The verdict on this is still out....

Do you guys agree on this??

THansenite

At the speeds that the turbo's turbine spins, I wouldn't doubt that is the case. I hadn't thought of that before. I can see now how it wouldn't really spin while touching the shaft. The oil would form a thin layer similar to ball bearings as long as the turbine was weighted perfectly. Nice catch.

MIAPLAYA

Try this...
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turbo_ceramicbb.htm

Serialk1llr

Oooooooooh schnap! You missed the sticky you HAD to have seen when posting in this forum

Betcha feel silly now that I found this for ya
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=104171

Guest

There are only two main reasons why ball bearing turbos began to be produced. The first was for the OE diesel customers that were begining to have more and more stringent air polution requiremnets placed on them and also at the same time trying to produce more powerful platforms. The second was for durability issues. Because of the way that diesel engines work, the more fuel that you place into them the more power you can make. You just have to match the air getting crammed into the cylinder to get hp/torque quickly. Because of the low rpm that diesel engines operate at, when fuel gets placed into the cyclinder and there is not enough air to match, you have black smoke. The EPA obviously has big problems with black smoke pouring from hundreds of thousands of over the road trucks, tarctors etc., so a solution had to be found. One of the ways was to deliver more air to the engine more quickly. With a diesel having a very narrow operating rpm it has to have a compressor and turbine matched to it that is spot on or else it will have major surging issues. Caterpillar came to Garrett demanding something better and what was developed is the ball bearing design you see today. It is a sleeve that gets placed into the bearing housing and has two ball bearings placed inside that sleeve that the turbine shaft passes through. The second ball bearing design is for durability. This is the design that Turbonetics chose to go with because we have always been about high performance vs. satisfying OE demands. Please note that I am not knocking the Garrett stuff here. Turbonetics customers were beginning to take turbo race cars to a whole new level and with them the boost pressures were incresing significantly. Conventional units were failing because of the high thrust loads that go along with high boost pressures. The Turbonetics design is an angular contact ceramic ball bearing. That means that the loading of the turbo rests on the ball bearing itself and not the weaker bronze thrust bearing in other turbos. A standard bronze thrust bearing can handle 60-80 lbs. of dynamic thrust loading and the Ceramic Ball Bearing handles over 1,000 lbs. of thrust loading. It also spools up much faster than a conventional unit because the shaft is rotating on the ball bearing.

Today there are many applications of ball bearing turbos in stock vehicles. Many OE diesel engines have them with Caterpillar leading the way there. Skyline GTR's also had ball bearing units on them stock along with a ceramic turbine wheel (awesome).

Real world results whether on the dyno or on the street is significant. A ball bearing turbo will deliver more air, quicker to the engine than a conventional turbo will. The faster you can deliver boost to the engine the more exhuast gas energy will be exiting the cylinder head - the more boost you will deliver - the more exhaust gas energy etc. etc. What you will find is that a broader range of power will show up on the dyno throughout the rpm range and on the street this translates to faster spoolup=faster car. In racing applications it is even more important because on a pro drag racing tree, it is crucial to make boost at the line in 5/10ths of a second when second bulb gets lit. Same goes for road racing when inbeween shifts and braking where faster spoolup means quicker exit speeds from the corners.

In a standard floating bronze bushing turbo the floating bearings actually rotates at 1/3 the speed that the shaft is rotating at. The oil that gets placed onto the floating bushing actually does not stay a film for more than a fraction of a second. The floating bushings have oil holes drilled in them for lubrication purposes and these holes whip the oil into a frothy mess. The oil becomes extremely aerated while trying to escape the bearing housing. That is why oil drainage is so important to a turbochargers life. The oil must turn back into a movable liquid to drain down to the pan.

Ball bearing turbos do cost more but you are paying for technology. Think of it this way. Standard floating bushing turbo = cd walkman. Ball bearing units = iPod. CD's are great but in every day use the iPod blows it away. Technology is fantastic, take advantage of it whenver you can.

MIAPLAYA

Thanks for the info Tyler!!!

sleepermod

Hhmmmm.... Informative writeup I must say, but I still have my reservations on the ball bearing vs thrust roller debate.

I do agree on the ceramic alloy compressor housing fabrication technology being in some high performance cars though.. they retain heat well and this means a more efficient turbine spin.

Porsche has their own PCCB (Porsche Composite Ceramic Brakes) system which is revolutionary and lasts the lifetime on the car! BUT of course, its pricey $$$$ Hi-tech means Hi-price

Guest

What reservations do you have? Anything specific?

The ceramic turbine wheels used were not for heat retention purposes though, they were used because ceramic materials are 1/2 the weight of GMR or Inconel steel that is normally used in exhaust turbine wheels. Lower inertia mass means faster response and better power.