SoccerBoy_AP

I was hunting around for top mounted intercooler options for our S/C, since front mount is a waste. I found this website:

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/index.html

Anybody ever heard of them? Use em?

turbogsxr750

bell interecoolers are great but why do you say frony mounts are a waste.

sp0t

Bell intercoolers are top notch.

and yeah, why do you say front mounts are a waste? they serve a great purpose and there's a reason why its mounted in the front.

SoccerBoy_AP

For a supercharger, a front mount is not as effective unless you are pushing 12psi or better. To much boost is lost over the distance traveled.

correct me if I'm wrong....

monkeysauce

I think the winner for the S/C would be an air/water IC. There is a guy on the forum who is running one with his ZPI stage 0.

kikcaffine

That doesnt make any sence to me. Sorry.

monkeysauce

I think he means that you lose psi with a FMIC and the SC. For instance, running a 9lb pulley will only make 7lb of pressure by the time it gets to the TB

Gerard_gmaiz

thats correct you loose 2 full psi with the FMIC

mahalzkita28

if you got a topmount you would need to cut a hole in your hood...

and the piping is only one factor of the typical pressure loss. imagine the velocity of the air going through the pipe before the intercooler, then it reaches the intercooler which is a big cavity so the air slows down it crams it back into the pipe going to the TB. you need to get the correct sized intercooler for you application. getting the correct sized intercooler with good efficiency is key.

on a s/c its different from a turbo. a turbo you could say would make an infinate boost but it is regulated by the wastegate. say the wastegate is set to 8lbs, so even though there is a pressure loss due to an intercooler, there is still 8lbs in the system because thats what the wastegate keeps it at and just bleeds off extra boost.

on the s/c which is belt driven its limited to the size of the pulley. so if your pulley produced 9.5psi... and you lost the typical 2psi, you lost that psi. now the benefit of an intercooler is to lower the inlet temperature so you can produce more hp at a given octane rating and the lower temp helps prevent detonation. now you can run a smaller pulley to increase the boost even more and also run more timing. the trd map retards timing to prevent detonation becuase of the lack of an intercooler. the lower intake temp is also very beneficial becuase it is denser air, which means more power.

now that being said, i wouldnt recommend you getting an intercooler unless you were really planning on running 12psi or more pulley. also running the intercooler will cause you to run lean, so you will have to get it tuned with at least an emanage. just know what you are getting yourself into. it will cost alot becuase of the custom piping, the tuning, the pulley, etc. you will make more power and cheaper with say... a turbonetics kit... but if you want to be unique then go for it.

some ppl argue meth injection with a 12psi pulley but in my opinion, ide rather have a FMIC with a 12psi pulley so net about 10psi... and run it safe that way. so the motor is only exposed to 10psi overall vs. 12, unless you have a built motor.

you also have to keep refilling the meth/water tank. vs. just having ambient outside air cooling the metal fins on the FMIC. so the FMIC has a much lower failure rate then the meth/water injection. and what if the pump fails for the meth/water injection while you are at redline. all bad.

people also argue that the centerfugal design of the s/c isnt very efficient with the intercooler. however many other centerfugal designed s/c use i/c like the procharger systems with great results. its just finding a way to keep the boost loss minimal.

SoccerBoy_AP

thank you for the addition to the post Mahalzkita, you add quality to a forum!

Knowning what he just spelled out, does anybody know of a TMIC application on a tC w/ a supercharger? Since a TMIC would lose less boost over a FMIC since distance travelled is less assuming a well designed IC is used.

I whole heartly agree with running water/meth however having to keep the tank full over time would just be annoying. Plus I am very open to custom work!

The reason I asked about bell was because they listed the tC as work they had already done, but with very little detail. Since they are custom IC guys, wanted to know more about their applications in our cars based off of current forum peeps....

turbogsxr750

that is an incorrect statement. It all depends on how effiecient the core and the piping that you are using. Intercoolers have a volumeetric efficientcy just like a turbo. So say that you are going to lose 2 psi isnt right. you will lose a percentage of psi through a core.

06SuperWhite_SoCal_tC

There is a TRD owned tC that has the s/c with a topmount intercooler, but it was never produced with the tmic, just shown as a concept.

DynomyteSW

Well the Bell website shows that they make a IC for the SC tC but when you click in it they don't give any details about it. I'd be interested to see thier IC set-up. Anyone have any details on it, or am I not clicking the right link?

SoccerBoy_AP

DynomyteSW, that link not working on their page is why I posted here looking for info on them specifically.

*shakes fist at broken link*

I did however just write an email to their sales/support group with lots of questions about their current tC application for a IC.

I'll post the info.... when it gets to me....

Kydog

I have my old wrx hood scoop if you want to buy it lol!

Turbogsxr is correct its a variable percentage of pressure drop depending on the core design and piping. But.. front mounts have proven to provide a ton more torque than any top mount while beating it in the hp range usually also so if you get more power out of it why worry about losing 1 psi or so??? Colder air will make more power than air that travels less distance. Only down side about FMIC is if you get in any crash no matter how small to the front end... u need a new core lol and then theres always cops... =\

GL and post up pictures if they provide you with any of that top mount.

SoccerBoy_AP

Cops? What .. be stalked by the Police b/c they know you have forced induction?

I got a reply, I am just asking if I can use the pics they sent me.

The build they did for the tC was for a magazine, they just provided the core the magazine had somebody else do the piping. I'll post all of it when I get the permission.

DynomyteSW

sweet looking forward to it SoccerBoy.

vvtiTc06

I think i have this magazine i bought it just because of the FMIC i seen it and i was really into the idea, after reading about it though they did have to tune it due to it getting lean. but after the tune it proved to bring good power but not very cost effective for the power. i could alos find the magazine and post more on it as far as numbers if they had any and cost.

EDIT:
Found the magazine with the quickness haha it was in my computer room! anyways it in the April 2007 edition of Modified mag. Page, 113.

after giving it another quick read they were running a Bell intercooler, custom bent tubing (in my mind did not look to good but i would sport! lol) also from pictures were running dc header. Now for the bad news they left NO NUMBERS, but they did state that it was a huge difference in the high end and power but leaned out real bad they were running a " Camcon and still could not tune to fix the lean so they recommended a a good emangment and tune, and believe at that point it would be well worth it they said there did say it had a little bit of lag tho, but with tune may fix this. again though is it worth the cost!

SoccerBoy_AP

Here are some of the pictures that Trey from Bell Intercoolers sent me.









The E-Mail from Trey (he said he would try to get more info on the build)
"We can help you with the custom intercooler design and if you would like to explore that option I will put you in touch with our custom engineering department at 830-229-5330.

We also have a front mount intercooler already designed. The front mount design was created for Modified magazine for use on their Scion tC project car. This intercooler was designed to support 280 hp. We did not produce an intercooler tube set or mounting brackets for this design, as Modified magazine was handling those details. We can work with you to add brackets if you would like.

I have attached a few photos of the intercooler from Modified."