OuterHeaven

Ummm on the same night between those 2 runs there was a 3 mph difference.... trap speeds do change based on many factors... no one said that he could not get a 118 mph trap. 112 and 115 with in hrs of each other. Also this vid (http://www.zeropointindustries.net/gallery/videos/ZPI2) shows a 113 and 114 one right after the other. That was with a full weight car also. Here is a dyno pic http://www.zeropointindustries.net/g...5tc/dynostage2 unfortunately they do not have the new dyno pic of the 15psi 20g car. I think our motors respond better to boost due to the fact of the offset crankshaft. In Corky Bell's book "Maximum Boost" he explains why when doubling the power of a NA engine with boost does not mean the engine will receive 2 times the wear and tear (check this thread out https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105044). Due to our offset crankshafts and that in a boosted engine there are more loads on the piston at different parts of the exhaust stroke I think our cars become more efficient as boost increases (to an extent). A turbo is limited to how much air it can push but how much power is limited to how efficient the fuel and engine are.

DouBLeJ16

OuterHeaven is right..

You can't just say "the car has 400whp so it traps 120"

'06 C6 Z06 puts down about 450-460whp, weighs 3,100 and traps anywhere from 120-125 depending on the driver.

kungpaosamuraiii

Honestly, for 400 hp I'd be asking for a lot of custom stuff and a lot of extra stuff so my price would probably end up a lot higher but I guess I'm wrong; you could make 400 hp for not so much as I expected.

For 400 I definitely would add sleeves and rods though.

And a "sensible" person with a lot of money probably wouldn't have bought a tC to mod up to 400 hp. You should notice that most of the most respected tuners are often times called "crazy" by friends and peers and whatnot. You should also notice that most of these respected engine-tinkerers are funded by race teams.

Schuller

Yes a tc is perfect at 300whp. No reasonable reason to take it higher.. Tc is not the right plattform for over 300. Its perfect for a 300 whp car to ride around stoned in though.

rhythmnsmoke

I guess we are not sensible people, and by no means would I consider myself to have a "lot of money". But when it reaches 400whp, and hitting constant low 12's, then I will call it a day on turning up anymore boost... (by the way, no Race team funding either). Right now, I think it will do low 13's, high 12's. Some of you might have seen the thread about our TT recording a 13.4 1/4 on the stock Scion tires. With the radials on, and a good launch, 13.1/13.2 with possible High, High 12's I am hoping for. I've done a 1/8th mile run with the radials on, and a baby launch and the TT clocked a 8.4/8.5 (can't remember which one), which would equate to about a 13.2 1/4.

kungpaosamuraiii

Then no, I don't consider you a sensible person.

But then again, I don't value power nearly as much as you do. That's your deal; that's fine with me. Just do me a favor and put the hurting on some of those B18s out there.

tcengel

I do think there was one, but he is on a modified FP 20G wheel in the stock 16G. He also had a stroker and mucho headwork. It was also on a sketchy dyno that everyone argued was "doctored."
The 16G in the 05-07 evos has a much better housing than the older "big 16G" that ZPI is using.

Disclaimer: I am not dissing ZPI at all and may buy one of their kits eventually. I am just stating truth for the guy who originally started this post about wanting 40WHP.
Again, this is not going to happen on a stock Scion with a ZPI kit.

tcengel

So that proves my point exactly. 400WHP is 120mph and 450WHP is 120 mph. So, with 112 MPH that puts you around 330whp. Ding ding.

Also remember that the Z06 has way different gearing due to speeds approaching 200mph. You should actually be faster gearing wise in the TC.

It is widely known throughout the drag racing world that trap speeds are what counts when showing power. No major tuner will disagree with that unless he's trying to sell products. I realize that for most of you this is your first performance car, but you will learn this over time at the drag strip. Traps don't lie.

rhythmnsmoke

The power is just a bi-product in my opinion. I should have restated it. I'm looking for mid 12's, and not 400whp. hp to me is for bragging rights. I care more about getting down the 1/4 faster more than how much power I'm putting out. We were getting down the 1/4 mile faster than other tC's that had more power mods than us at the last Scion ShootOut. It makes me feel better to get the same times as someone else who is expected to have more power than us.

rhythmnsmoke

If that isn't the stupidest comment I've heard thus far from you..


So, since you rely on ONE variable which is "trapspeed" despite the fact that the other person might cross the line first. How much whp is a 115mph trap speed? How much is 121mph? Did it ever occur to you that the trapspeed could be "off". Yes, I've seen it happen where the 1/4 time was correct, but the trapspeed was incorrect.


Disclaimer: ZPI did 121mph, I'm sure on a NON-Built Scion motor.

rhythmnsmoke

What point would that be? The whole thing was that ZPI passed the 112mph mark like nearly a year ago. Again, as fast as 121mph has been seen in a tC:

1) Without and LSD

2) Without the AEM EMS

3) Without some insane $ figure to get there.

So, actually, you only proved my point. That it dosen't take that crazy $ number you put up to make a tC 400 ponies. You would just need to swap you ZPI kit with a larger turbine, crank up the boost, and drop some turbo pistons in it (at BARE minimum that is).

Explain this one for me tcengel:

http://www.zeropointindustries.net/g...scionvmaserati


The Maserati in this vid dynoed 330whp on a Dyno Dynamics (which we all know is one of the lowest reading dynos you can run on). On a Dyno Jet, this car would be more like 380+ (just throwing the # out there don't know the actually %). But if you watch the vid. At the very end, the Maserati trapped only 107mph....

Hmmm....

rhythmnsmoke

Just a little FYI...

On a GT35R @ 9PSI the tC would put out 330whp and about 360lbs tQ. Now what do you think it would put out @ 14 PSI?

tcengel

Ok, then your admitting that it takes a larger turbo than a 16G right? That's what the argument started with right? I agree it's possible with a GT35R or even a GT30 as I first stated. Hell, 500 whp is. Reading comprehension is not your thing is it?

Exactly what turbo is on the car racing the Maserati? This whole argument started when you guys stated 400WHP on a 20g right? Am I missing something here?
You enjoy arguing in circles?

davedavetC

iTrader: (4)

im not joining the arguement but i think on that silver car it was the 20g

rhythmnsmoke

Correction, no one said on a 16G. If you read back, you would see that I said "If you want 400hp, then all you would need to do is trade out your 16G for a 20G. Then you started talking about how you couldn't do that on a 20G. That was the dispute. It was NEVER stated on a 16G, EVEN though the 16G is rated up to 400hp. Reading comprehension may not be your thing is it?

DouBLeJ16

The 06-07 EVO's (EVO IX's) come with 20g's, not 16g's.

tcengel

That is incorrect. It is a 16G with a slightly larger compressor housing. No Evo has ever come with a 20G. David Busher and Forced Performance both sell 20G upgrades so maybe you just read that somewhere. They put the 20G wheel in the 16G housing. It only makes ~10 hp more though.

DouBLeJ16

Well, I'll be damned, you're right.. I always thought it was a 20g.

Alot of good information in this thread about the same subject:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive.../t-197890.html

tcengel

Right here you said both 16G and 20g. Hmmm..

Ooooh look. They changed to a GT35R, just like I said ....... They needed a larger turbo. Ok, thanks for again proving my point.

And like I said berfore, the EVO 16g and the 20G are basically the same size.

I'm getting really sick of this man. Let's go back to my original post so you can finally admit I'm right.

Again, some of these are safety items, some of us want our cars to last 50,000-100,000miles. Oh and lets not forget about the Quaife which in your video you even mention you really need some traction.

tcengel

Well, like I said with VP16 and cams, headwork 400whp may be possible. This is all theoretical though based on compressor maps and does not account for our engines v/e which isn't very good with our lousy heads.