View Poll Results: Which of these 2?
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Which is better for a custom setup?
05-16-2006, 06:21 PM
#1
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Scion Evolution
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Which is better for a custom setup?
Which is better for a custom setup? In your opinion...
name w/ link
TDO5H-16G-10CM2
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/Su...0Universal.htm
TDO6H-20G-TDO5H-10CM2
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/Su...0Universal.htm
I'm looking to do from 250 to 330 whp. Do not worry about any other problems, I just want an opinion on these two, or maybe a medium cost turbine option that you think may help me achieve my purpose better than these two. Thanks people.
name w/ link
TDO5H-16G-10CM2
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/Su...0Universal.htm
TDO6H-20G-TDO5H-10CM2
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/Su...0Universal.htm
I'm looking to do from 250 to 330 whp. Do not worry about any other problems, I just want an opinion on these two, or maybe a medium cost turbine option that you think may help me achieve my purpose better than these two. Thanks people.
05-17-2006, 03:59 AM
#5
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Scion Evolution
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Originally Posted by soros151
Mano como estas? em... 
" as in you got me. I know him from the Scion Evolution club here in PR.
05-17-2006, 04:32 AM
#6
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They are both sweet. It's going to take more PSI on a 16G to get to 330whp than it would on a 20G. However, the smaller 16G will spool quicker than the 20G. But the 20G has more Higher HP potential. So, it's pretty much a toss up for you between the two.
05-17-2006, 06:18 AM
#11
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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No problem.
To further iterate...
We're on the second Evo turbo on his GSX. He literally blew the other one at the track. Got too hot I guess. He's pushed it as hard as 23psi with race fuel before. It just doesn't like higher rpms as much. It is a good turbo though, the 16G makes some decent power. But a 20G is a little better IMO.
If you really want a kick-"butt" setup... And still would rather use a Mitsu turbo setup, try these options...
16G Killer (16G on roids)
18G-5H turbo (7cm2 o2 housing) $639
18G-6 turbo (better wastegate for boost creep, and a high-nickel plated mitsu 7cm2 housing) $1065
For a T25 flange turbo that I sell... We sell the "disco potato". It's basically a T28 turbo with a .60AR and a .62 trim. Flows to about 320whp.
$1085 - http://www.dezod.com/pd_garrett_gt28rs.cfm#
Hopefully that helps.
The turbo comes down to your manifold choice. I think you'll be very happy if you go with a T3 flanged manifold instead of a T25. There's a lot of different options with a T3 flange and usually it's less expensive. If you're interested in any T3 stuff, post here and I shall LOAD your thread with some options lol. Paul and I are turbo freaks and we could talk turbo all day
To further iterate...
We're on the second Evo turbo on his GSX. He literally blew the other one at the track. Got too hot I guess. He's pushed it as hard as 23psi with race fuel before. It just doesn't like higher rpms as much. It is a good turbo though, the 16G makes some decent power. But a 20G is a little better IMO.
If you really want a kick-"butt" setup... And still would rather use a Mitsu turbo setup, try these options...
16G Killer (16G on roids)
18G-5H turbo (7cm2 o2 housing) $639
18G-6 turbo (better wastegate for boost creep, and a high-nickel plated mitsu 7cm2 housing) $1065
For a T25 flange turbo that I sell... We sell the "disco potato". It's basically a T28 turbo with a .60AR and a .62 trim. Flows to about 320whp.
$1085 - http://www.dezod.com/pd_garrett_gt28rs.cfm#
Hopefully that helps.
The turbo comes down to your manifold choice. I think you'll be very happy if you go with a T3 flanged manifold instead of a T25. There's a lot of different options with a T3 flange and usually it's less expensive. If you're interested in any T3 stuff, post here and I shall LOAD your thread with some options lol. Paul and I are turbo freaks and we could talk turbo all day
05-17-2006, 06:35 AM
#12
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Scion Evolution
Thread Starter
Okay, interested in the T3 stuff (a lot), post more info... 
:D I am super eager to learn more. I'm always trying to instruct myself by reading as much as I can about this. 
:D I am super eager to learn more. I'm always trying to instruct myself by reading as much as I can about this.
05-17-2006, 07:03 AM
#13
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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The first thing you need to do is figure out a budget. From there you can choose your manifold. Our turbo manifolds use a T3 flange with a Tial wastegate flange, for an external wastegate. Having an external wastegate for regulating boost at various pressure levels is usually much more controlled than using an internal wastegate. A lot of times the o2 housing of an internally gated turbo just doesn't flow enough and you get the ever so common boost creep once you start hitting higher boost levels. A 35mm or 38mm wastegate will be much more controlled.
That being said, we use a log based, T3 flanged, externally gated manifold. You have 3 MAJOR turbo options. T3, T3/T04B, T3/T04E. A T3 is just too small for this motor. A T3 is your exhaust housing. A T3 exhaust housing is more than enough for our car/motor. From there you choose your compressor housing. We currently use a T04B compressor housing right now, but use a T04E on our Stage 2 system. A T04B can make about 280-300whp reliably on our stock motor. From here there's actually different ARs and trims to go with to further customize your turbo.
The trim of a wheel, whether compressor or turbine, affects performance by shifting the airflow capacity. All other factors held constant, a higher trim wheel will flow more than a smaller trim wheel. However, it is important to note that very often all other factors are not held constant. So just because a wheel is a larger trim does not necessarily mean that it will flow more. We use different trims on our kits but do not release the information to the public. If you'd like a well performing turbo for our motor, simply ask for your Stage 1 tC turbo. We have them custom built by turbonetics with a perfectly matched compressor map.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker spool-up. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel in a more turbulant manner. This will reduce ultimae flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
The key is to take into account for all measurables of your motor. Compression, stroke, rpm, exhaust duration, all effect what turbo will work best. From there you then need to find what psi levels will be most efficient.
You can get any T3/T04B combo to work on the tC, some are just more efficient than others. If you look at our torque curves on our dynos we show a very wide curve. This is because of the optimally matched compressor, exhaust, and AR setups. I wouldn't suggest running a T3/T04E unless you plan on running over 10psi on a daily basis. I would not reccommend over 10psi on a daily basis on a stock motor. You can pull timing, and it will help save the pistons better but increase EGTs. A built motor will almost need a T04E to get the most power out of it because it's much more efficient at higher boost levels (over 10psi).
Our turbos peak efficiency goes up to 14psi, and starts at 9psi. It's a very good well-rounded turbo. We do sell the manifold, wastegate, and turbo seperate. So if you'd still rather build your own kit we can accomodate that as well.
If you have any more specific questions after reading all this, please ask. Paul and I can anwser just about anything turbo related.
-Joe
That being said, we use a log based, T3 flanged, externally gated manifold. You have 3 MAJOR turbo options. T3, T3/T04B, T3/T04E. A T3 is just too small for this motor. A T3 is your exhaust housing. A T3 exhaust housing is more than enough for our car/motor. From there you choose your compressor housing. We currently use a T04B compressor housing right now, but use a T04E on our Stage 2 system. A T04B can make about 280-300whp reliably on our stock motor. From here there's actually different ARs and trims to go with to further customize your turbo.
The trim of a wheel, whether compressor or turbine, affects performance by shifting the airflow capacity. All other factors held constant, a higher trim wheel will flow more than a smaller trim wheel. However, it is important to note that very often all other factors are not held constant. So just because a wheel is a larger trim does not necessarily mean that it will flow more. We use different trims on our kits but do not release the information to the public. If you'd like a well performing turbo for our motor, simply ask for your Stage 1 tC turbo. We have them custom built by turbonetics with a perfectly matched compressor map.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker spool-up. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel in a more turbulant manner. This will reduce ultimae flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
The key is to take into account for all measurables of your motor. Compression, stroke, rpm, exhaust duration, all effect what turbo will work best. From there you then need to find what psi levels will be most efficient.
You can get any T3/T04B combo to work on the tC, some are just more efficient than others. If you look at our torque curves on our dynos we show a very wide curve. This is because of the optimally matched compressor, exhaust, and AR setups. I wouldn't suggest running a T3/T04E unless you plan on running over 10psi on a daily basis. I would not reccommend over 10psi on a daily basis on a stock motor. You can pull timing, and it will help save the pistons better but increase EGTs. A built motor will almost need a T04E to get the most power out of it because it's much more efficient at higher boost levels (over 10psi).
Our turbos peak efficiency goes up to 14psi, and starts at 9psi. It's a very good well-rounded turbo. We do sell the manifold, wastegate, and turbo seperate. So if you'd still rather build your own kit we can accomodate that as well.
If you have any more specific questions after reading all this, please ask. Paul and I can anwser just about anything turbo related.
-Joe
05-17-2006, 06:32 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by SO-CAL_TC
Im will be running a 16g turbo but im only gonna boost 4 psi daily and 7 psi @ the track.
That's worthless almost. Cause you can drive around without getting into boost, so there would be no need to even run 4psi daily.
05-17-2006, 07:36 PM
#18
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Scion Evolution
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Originally Posted by SO-CAL_TC
Im will be running a 16g turbo but im only gonna boost 4 psi daily and 7 psi @ the track.
05-17-2006, 08:48 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by SO-CAL_TC
Hmm. well this is my first time going turbo so any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
You don't have to change PSI levels when it's that low. If you were talking like 8-10psi daily and 15psi at track, then I would be like cool....but 4psi and 7psi, not enough to warrant driving daily on. My girl drives daily on 8/9psi.