ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I figure if I'm losing less than 1 psi to the IC, etc. that's pretty good. I only mentioned it for accuracy since the dyno guy put 6psi on the sheet instead of 5psi. That and some setups tend to spike above the WG spring psi but mine doesn't.

This is where it ends for now. If and when the tranny needs replacement I may consider other options. Maybe a 5 speed MT swap or a built AT. Then I could bump the power up to 300+. For now though I'm very happy with this setup. I'm still a bit amazed at how much difference the new intake and MAS setup made.


Yeah, I wish this trans was like my old 626 where I could manually select and hold any gear. At least I now know that it's possible to lock it into a gear. ScanXL has a console feature for sending commands to the ECU. I wonder if it's possible, given the right command, to do this? Something for me to investigate. Thx.


Thanks John! I haven't posted much but I've been following your build thread progress since the beginning. I like what you're doing and that you have the ballz to try things that others say can't be done. It sounds a little crazy but I think you might just pull it off with the Neo. The injectors have to flow 40-45% more fuel with E85 and you can do some tuning with fuel pressure. My gut feeling is that 700cc might be too big for the Neo but I'll be watching your progress with much interest and wish you the best of luck!

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

I figured with e85 consuming more volume than regular gas and have the options to turn the fuel pressure down I could get it to work. I figure a base pressure of 38psi would give the 700cc injectors the equivalant rating of a 650cc injector. I wouldnt really want to lower the fuel pressure any more due to trouble with atomizing the fuel. I also think I will be able to get it to work. Plus, I love how I can mount the Neo and have something to look at rather than something shoved into my glove box or dash.

PS - I will be using open loop 3 lock by disconnecting my o2 sensor I dont really care about a CEL. Allowing me to subtract fuel all the way down to 500rpm/idle.

Also, my understanding with e85 is that it pulls LESS timing compared to regular pump gas due to its higher octane making it safer than using reglar pump gas.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

In regards to the 550cc, stock ecu, and fuel return it would WORK. I did not say a perfect tune or anything like that.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thank you. I chose my manifold, turbo and exhaust size based on street use and I'm very happy with the results. IMO it's preferable to have TQ peak early for DD street use and especially with a AT. I may not have a lot of hp or tq but it's always there when I want it.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

This sounds very reasonable to me if using e85 instead of pump gas. I'm looking forward to your results with 700cc and the Neo. I think you may surprise a few people.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

I am doing this now just cuz you said I couldnt! Just to let you know.

Do you want your slap now? or later?

rhythmnsmoke

You can't go over Niagara Falls in a Canoe and live to tell about it. Now, you want to prove me wrong....LOL.

I know somethings are worth doing because some said it can't be done, but seriously bro....

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

People have done it in a barrel and survived

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yweAc...eature=related

rhythmnsmoke

Why you think I said canoe? LOL...

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

hehehe

paul_dezod

One of the seven wonders of the world 20 minutes away from the shop. Funny!

I literally laughed out loud when I read this.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

lololol - yea I know im crazy but I have to do it....I wasnt really mad by what soflo said Im just messing around with him...but I am going to do it....partial throttle should be ok too becuase the e85 will allow cooler comustion temps thus allowing a safer, higher afr in part throttle.

PS - I live by Niagra Falls too lol maybe that why Im crazy.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Just be sure to raise your fuel pressure or those 550s might only be good for ~250bhp with E85. I assume you're aiming higher than that. With a bone-stock fuel system I'm almost maxing out 440s at only 260bhp on 93 pump. 440 x 1.47 = 647cc.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all your help - Yea I plan to deff raise the fuel pressure and the ss enricher is on my list too - love the driveability with the stock ecu

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Good luck. I'm looking forward to your results.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I have a question about my dyno results. After looking at a lot of 2AZ dyno sheets I've noticed that the torque curve generally falls off after peaking between 4-5k rpm. Some fall off more than mine and others less but in a few cases I've seen really flat tq curves even at low boost (6-8psi). What are some of the factors that affect this? I can't believe that tuning alone can make such a dramatic difference. Can a small turbine housing affect the tq curve? What about the manifold? EL vs say cast iron? Exhaust restriction?

Just looking for ideas, TIA.

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

I would think anything that can cause back pressure will affect the tq. compression, head design, turbo housing, turbo wheels, afr, turbo manifold design, exhaust, the list goes on really of possible causes. Im curious how much tq would be affected by just pnp the head and larger valves.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I suppose you're right. The end result is the sum of it's parts. Then we also have dyno results like these from 2 XBs with the same exact turbo kit and boost recorded on the same dyno. The only differences between these setups are intake, exhaust and tune. The red run in the first sheet looks like mine with higher boost and the tq peak moved up 500rpm and the third has an amazing tq curve.

You want to know the funny part? The first XB (sheet 1) had a full 3" exhaust and the second one (sheets 2&3) had stock exhaust with a TRD axle-back! The XB's stock exhaust tapers from 2.25" to 1.8" ID before reaching the 2.5" TRD axle-back. These results fly in the face of what I've been told about turbo exhaust design. Unless Rob misspoke when he said "TRD exhaust only" because the only TRD exhaust for the XB is a 2.5" ID axle-back.

I wonder if the red run was taken under very hot conditions like mine was? ECT over 200F and IAT over 120F with no airflow thru the IC or to the air filter. I know that the stock ECU has guardian features like the X1 and pulls ign timing above preset ECT and IAT temps. I may have to dyno test again in better (cooler) conditions. I want a nice phat tq curve like sheet 3.



Full 3" exhaust^^





Stock exhaust with TRD axle-back

paul_dezod

There are plenty of variables other than the kit even that will play a role in the power made Brett. Just because it's bigger does not mean it's better.

So both xB2s had about the same componentry, but I am sure they are not 100% identical. The turbine wheel and/or A/R alone could have enough bearing to change the power curves like that not even counting other variables like the tune, plugs, octane ran, exhaust size, ambient temp, baro pressure, boost levels, compressor efficiency etc etc.

You must view turbocharging as the larger picture and not just the kit. Once you can see past that one tree, you will see the forest.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Paul, at the risk of sounding offended by your condescension, DUH!

I'm not trying to understand why different turbo setups produce different results, I'm trying to better understand the complex interaction of the component variables so that I may apply this knowledge for my benefit and possibly other readers who don't already know everything.

Perhaps you can explain the marked difference between the 2 runs in sheet #1? Aside from different boost levels, I doubt they changed much else in between runs. What would cause a very flat tq curve to fall off so drastically after 5000rpm simply by raising the boost level? I'd like to know.