CarbonXe is boosted. 287.2/272
05-16-2008 | 02:07 AM
#24
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
Originally Posted by tC_2NeR
Carbon, when did u order ur Simple Kit....
Mine should be arriving soon,
last time i spoke to Todd he said he was boxing stuff up soo.....
also DAMN u got the .82 a/r???
lmao i got the classic 57 trim .63
i also got the standard (.5 bar) spring on my wastegate...I really dont want to be boosting any greater than that 7.25 psi
Mine should be arriving soon,
last time i spoke to Todd he said he was boxing stuff up soo.....
also DAMN u got the .82 a/r???
lmao i got the classic 57 trim .63
i also got the standard (.5 bar) spring on my wastegate...I really dont want to be boosting any greater than that 7.25 psi
05-16-2008 | 02:09 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
.82 isn't too large for our mototrs, not with a 57 trim. I ran the numbers and mapped it out, it will lag, but I want it to lag. I don't want it to spool up until 3500-4000, that way it's easier to stay off the boost if I need to, and it will pull a harder than a .63 trim.
There are more Civics out there with angled exhausts than all the turbo'd cars in the world. An angled tip used to be called 'drift style', isn't anymore because noobs have them on FWD cars. It's ricey.
Originally Posted by 20tCDude05
There are tons of STIs and EVOs with "ricer angled exhausts" so I doubt they are actually ricers. :D
05-16-2008 | 02:11 AM
#27
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Team ScioNRG
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,756
From: Staten Island, NYC
I dont believe that to be true.
The spring on the tial is the standard, the 7.25psi spring.
That means that when the turbo makes its boost and it reaches the pre-determined level (in this case 7 and a 1/4), the wastegate begins to open and reroute the rest of the air from the engine out of the way from the turbine and down the dumptube, makin the turbo reach its limit with the amount of air its getting and holding u around a bout constant 7.25 psi
also, you can absolutely boost less than the spring psi, it depends on how much throttle ur givin the car, jjust watch ur boost gauge, ur not always gunna be at 7.25psi, thats only WOT.
The spring on the tial is the standard, the 7.25psi spring.
That means that when the turbo makes its boost and it reaches the pre-determined level (in this case 7 and a 1/4), the wastegate begins to open and reroute the rest of the air from the engine out of the way from the turbine and down the dumptube, makin the turbo reach its limit with the amount of air its getting and holding u around a bout constant 7.25 psi
also, you can absolutely boost less than the spring psi, it depends on how much throttle ur givin the car, jjust watch ur boost gauge, ur not always gunna be at 7.25psi, thats only WOT.
05-16-2008 | 02:18 AM
#29
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
I know how a wastegate works...I've taken them apart before.
Ask anyone who actually knows how a wastegate operates, the .5 bar rating, doesn't mean you can run 0-.5 bar, it means you can run .5-1.0. It's the minimum boost, and you can go up to double the rating.
I'm talking about peak boost...OBVIOUSLY you can run less than your peak, it's virtually impossible to go from 0-8 without hitting every integer.
Ask anyone who actually knows how a wastegate operates, the .5 bar rating, doesn't mean you can run 0-.5 bar, it means you can run .5-1.0. It's the minimum boost, and you can go up to double the rating.
I'm talking about peak boost...OBVIOUSLY you can run less than your peak, it's virtually impossible to go from 0-8 without hitting every integer.
05-16-2008 | 02:24 AM
#30
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Team ScioNRG
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,756
From: Staten Island, NYC
but the wastegate opens fully at the spring psi..so how would that let it run more boost?
im not following ur point
also why do ppl run boost just off of the wastegate setting and decline getting a boost controller
if what ur saying is true everyone would need a boost controller to prevent overboost.
im not following ur point
also why do ppl run boost just off of the wastegate setting and decline getting a boost controller
if what ur saying is true everyone would need a boost controller to prevent overboost.
05-16-2008 | 02:36 AM
#31
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
Whats a Wastegate?
A turbo by itself does not know how to regulate boost levels. Basically, a turbo system is a positive feedback loop meaning that the engine's exhaust spins the turbo which, forces more air into the intake making more exhaust which, in turn spins the turbo even faster. Without a way to regulate boost levels the turbo would keep producing higher pressures until the engine exploded. This is where the waste gate comes into play. The waste gate attaches onto the turbo header before the turbo. When you begin accelerating exhaust gas pressure builds inside the manifold and is forced through the turbo. This pressure continues to increase as the turbo spins faster (remember the positive feedback loop). When the desired boost level is reached the waste gate opens and vents pressure from inside the manifold so the turbo won't spin any faster.
So how does the waste gate work exactly?
Above is a diagram of a typical external waste gate. Inside the waste gate is a diaphragm, which creates a seal, and a spring, which holds the waste gate, closed. Spring rates vary depending on the amount of boost you want to run, typically they are given in a "bar" value for example 1 bar would be 14.7psi. This would mean that in order to open the waste gate you would need to excerpt a greater pressure than the 14.7psi spring holding the waste gate closed. In order for the waste gate to work you must have the compressor reference port hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo, if you don't have this vacuum line attached than the boost pressure will not be limited to the set spring pressure; it will build unlimited boost pressure until your engine is destroyed.
Normally pressure from a spooling turbo pushes against the diaphragm (though the vacuum line attached to the compressor reference port), which in turn pushes against the waste gate spring. When the pressure from the spooling turbo exceeds the spring pressure the waste gate’s plunger opens releasing the excess pressure through the dump tube into the exhaust after the turbo or to open atmosphere. Typically, if you use the waste gate to control your boost levels you will experience a decrease in power and spool times. Why? Although the spring fully opens at its set spring pressure it tends to begin opening before reaching the set spring pressure. This "pre-opening" leaks boost pressure through the dump tube before max boost pressure is reached resulting in a decrease in power mostly toward the top end. This can be corrected by using a boost controller.
Boost controllers serve two functions; increase boost levels beyond the set wastegate spring pressure and reduce the "pre-opening" of the wastegate-controlled boost pressure.
A manual boost controller will allow you to increase boost levels beyond what the wastegate spring is set. How does it work? Below is a diagram of a manual wastegate.
In order to run a manual boost controller we need to tee off of the vacuum line which runs from the turbo compressor housing to the compressor reference port. The manual boost controller works using a spring and check ball, by screwing the adjusting screw into the boost controller you put more pressure on the spring which reduces the amount of airflow through the boost controller and into the boost controller port. Less airflow means less pressure will be assisting the spring to keep the waste gate plunger shut. The pressure in the vacuum line going to the compressor reference port will equal the pressure the turbo is producing. A boost controller will allow you to direct some of that pressure to the top of the wastegate diaphragm creating two opposable forces. By adjusting the spring pressure of the boost controller you can vary the amount of boost that the turbo will make before opening the waste gate’s plunger. If you want to run a higher boost level than the waste gate spring allows you will need a boost controller.
The manual boost controller is a very simple device that can help you make more power from your turbo setup. Here are three additional things to keep in mind about waste gates:
Without a line running from the compressor housing to the waste gate’s compressor reference port boost pressures will keep increasing forever. This will quickly destroy your engine!
Run a waste gate as close to the desired boost pressure as possible this will help the boost controller handle the pressure better.
You can't reduce your desired boost pressure lower than the spring rate.
Read. I'm horrible at explaining things because I can never word them right, so I found a right up.
Originally Posted by Titan@TurboSaturns
A turbo by itself does not know how to regulate boost levels. Basically, a turbo system is a positive feedback loop meaning that the engine's exhaust spins the turbo which, forces more air into the intake making more exhaust which, in turn spins the turbo even faster. Without a way to regulate boost levels the turbo would keep producing higher pressures until the engine exploded. This is where the waste gate comes into play. The waste gate attaches onto the turbo header before the turbo. When you begin accelerating exhaust gas pressure builds inside the manifold and is forced through the turbo. This pressure continues to increase as the turbo spins faster (remember the positive feedback loop). When the desired boost level is reached the waste gate opens and vents pressure from inside the manifold so the turbo won't spin any faster.
So how does the waste gate work exactly?
Above is a diagram of a typical external waste gate. Inside the waste gate is a diaphragm, which creates a seal, and a spring, which holds the waste gate, closed. Spring rates vary depending on the amount of boost you want to run, typically they are given in a "bar" value for example 1 bar would be 14.7psi. This would mean that in order to open the waste gate you would need to excerpt a greater pressure than the 14.7psi spring holding the waste gate closed. In order for the waste gate to work you must have the compressor reference port hooked up to the compressor side of the turbo, if you don't have this vacuum line attached than the boost pressure will not be limited to the set spring pressure; it will build unlimited boost pressure until your engine is destroyed.
Normally pressure from a spooling turbo pushes against the diaphragm (though the vacuum line attached to the compressor reference port), which in turn pushes against the waste gate spring. When the pressure from the spooling turbo exceeds the spring pressure the waste gate’s plunger opens releasing the excess pressure through the dump tube into the exhaust after the turbo or to open atmosphere. Typically, if you use the waste gate to control your boost levels you will experience a decrease in power and spool times. Why? Although the spring fully opens at its set spring pressure it tends to begin opening before reaching the set spring pressure. This "pre-opening" leaks boost pressure through the dump tube before max boost pressure is reached resulting in a decrease in power mostly toward the top end. This can be corrected by using a boost controller.
Boost controllers serve two functions; increase boost levels beyond the set wastegate spring pressure and reduce the "pre-opening" of the wastegate-controlled boost pressure.
A manual boost controller will allow you to increase boost levels beyond what the wastegate spring is set. How does it work? Below is a diagram of a manual wastegate.
In order to run a manual boost controller we need to tee off of the vacuum line which runs from the turbo compressor housing to the compressor reference port. The manual boost controller works using a spring and check ball, by screwing the adjusting screw into the boost controller you put more pressure on the spring which reduces the amount of airflow through the boost controller and into the boost controller port. Less airflow means less pressure will be assisting the spring to keep the waste gate plunger shut. The pressure in the vacuum line going to the compressor reference port will equal the pressure the turbo is producing. A boost controller will allow you to direct some of that pressure to the top of the wastegate diaphragm creating two opposable forces. By adjusting the spring pressure of the boost controller you can vary the amount of boost that the turbo will make before opening the waste gate’s plunger. If you want to run a higher boost level than the waste gate spring allows you will need a boost controller.
The manual boost controller is a very simple device that can help you make more power from your turbo setup. Here are three additional things to keep in mind about waste gates:
Without a line running from the compressor housing to the waste gate’s compressor reference port boost pressures will keep increasing forever. This will quickly destroy your engine!
Run a waste gate as close to the desired boost pressure as possible this will help the boost controller handle the pressure better.
You can't reduce your desired boost pressure lower than the spring rate.
05-16-2008 | 02:42 AM
#32
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Team ScioNRG
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,756
From: Staten Island, NYC
ok so ur article proves my point then.....
the wastegate regulates the PSI that ur running by dumping the rest of the air away from the turbo..
i dont see whea the atricle says you can boost more than the spring allows,bro
and disregarding boost controllers, and pre-opening, this article said what i said no?
the wastegate regulates the PSI that ur running by dumping the rest of the air away from the turbo..
i dont see whea the atricle says you can boost more than the spring allows,bro
and disregarding boost controllers, and pre-opening, this article said what i said no?
05-16-2008 | 02:46 AM
#33
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
Go read it again. Wait, let me save you the effort since you're at about a second grade reading level. I can tell by your lack of typing skills.
So let's recap. You can't go BELOW .5 bar. And you can go ABOVE .5 bar.
A manual boost controller will allow you to increase boost levels beyond what the wastegate spring is set.
05-16-2008 | 02:51 AM
#34
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Team ScioNRG
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,756
From: Staten Island, NYC
Excuse me carbon,
But last thought i had was that we are having a friendly debate here....why must you turn this personal
TT brothers dont fight, cmon now
and since i have an oppurtunity to refresh your memory:
In my first post, did I mention a boost controller at all? No.
Im well aware of what a boost controller does.
Also, in my second post, I believe I made it clear I was referring to people boosting off wastegate psi alone....I said that according to your statement that the wastegate can go from .5 to 1.0 bar, that you would need a boost controller.
In your original post where you insulted me and basically said to ask someone who REALLY knows how a wastegate works, u say that its the wastegate alone that can go past it.
Instead what you should have said that WITH THE HELP OF A BOOST CONTROLLER, you can boost beyond spring psi.
Thanks.
So lets recap: Next time, include Boost Controller in your argument.
But last thought i had was that we are having a friendly debate here....why must you turn this personal
TT brothers dont fight, cmon now
and since i have an oppurtunity to refresh your memory:
In my first post, did I mention a boost controller at all? No.
Im well aware of what a boost controller does.
Also, in my second post, I believe I made it clear I was referring to people boosting off wastegate psi alone....I said that according to your statement that the wastegate can go from .5 to 1.0 bar, that you would need a boost controller.
In your original post where you insulted me and basically said to ask someone who REALLY knows how a wastegate works, u say that its the wastegate alone that can go past it.
Instead what you should have said that WITH THE HELP OF A BOOST CONTROLLER, you can boost beyond spring psi.
Thanks.
So lets recap: Next time, include Boost Controller in your argument.
05-16-2008 | 02:57 AM
#36
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
Show me where I said the word alone and show me where I ever mentioned anything about not needed a boost controller.
The point I was trying to get across, was that you CAN'T go below the set spring pressure and that you CAN go above it. You just ____ed me off because you just kept saying "you proved me right". Because in theory about HOW a wastegate works, yes I proved you right. But in theory about SETTINGS, I couldn't get my point thru to you.
Let's just leave it at that.
And that's also why I found the write up, I even said "I'm horrible at explaining things because I can never word them right"
The point I was trying to get across, was that you CAN'T go below the set spring pressure and that you CAN go above it. You just ____ed me off because you just kept saying "you proved me right". Because in theory about HOW a wastegate works, yes I proved you right. But in theory about SETTINGS, I couldn't get my point thru to you.
Let's just leave it at that.
And that's also why I found the write up, I even said "I'm horrible at explaining things because I can never word them right"
05-16-2008 | 03:04 AM
#37
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Team ScioNRG
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,756
From: Staten Island, NYC
Granted, you never said the word alone.
But what you had said was:
"Ask anyone who actually knows how a wastegate operates, the .5 bar rating, doesn't mean you can run 0-.5 bar, it means you can run .5-1.0. It's the minimum boost, and you can go up to double the rating. "
Now, from my point of view, I would argue the fact that it seems like you are referring to the wastegate alone.
What you should have said , was that you can go up to dbl the rating with a Boost Controller.
and yes, I know that.
So lets just consider this a misunderstanding, and that you shouldnt make misleading posts. Next time just throw Boost Controller in there, and this conversation would have never happened.
also, there is no reason to get "E-____ed Off", cool off man, Im just another guy on SL talking about cars thats all. No need to say I have second grade reading skills, and infer that I cannot comprehend anything.
All you hadda say was Boost Controller........
P.S. Congrats on the Exhaust, its gunna sound great!
But what you had said was:
"Ask anyone who actually knows how a wastegate operates, the .5 bar rating, doesn't mean you can run 0-.5 bar, it means you can run .5-1.0. It's the minimum boost, and you can go up to double the rating. "
Now, from my point of view, I would argue the fact that it seems like you are referring to the wastegate alone.
What you should have said , was that you can go up to dbl the rating with a Boost Controller.
and yes, I know that.
So lets just consider this a misunderstanding, and that you shouldnt make misleading posts. Next time just throw Boost Controller in there, and this conversation would have never happened.
also, there is no reason to get "E-____ed Off", cool off man, Im just another guy on SL talking about cars thats all. No need to say I have second grade reading skills, and infer that I cannot comprehend anything.
All you hadda say was Boost Controller........
P.S. Congrats on the Exhaust, its gunna sound great!
05-16-2008 | 03:10 AM
#40
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,638
From: Parsippany, NJ
Originally Posted by coryjames
what about site wide thread jacks and getting banned?
tC2thumper or w/e his name is, I think that's who it was anyway lol, wanted me to join him in complaining about one guys signature. He had 24 lines in it, each mod had its own line, plus he had some other random crap in it. so I made my signature
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So just imagine me posting 6 times on 1 page, how long a page would end up becoming.
I changed it because I totally jacked Dezod's new Motul thread within 1 page of it opening, and I felt bad lol.