Comparing sp turbo kit to turbonetics kit!
04-04-2006, 06:27 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by cmlloveless
So what I am getting out of this is that with the SP system I am going to have to spend another $2000 to get the AEM if I wan to tune up in the 300hp range, but with the Turbonetics I can tune that with the Unichip?
I do realize the AEM EMS is a better route to go if I try to get around 450-600hp out of my tC. But realisticly I am not made of that kind of money to even be thinking those numbers in horsepower right now! My ultimate goal is to get around 350whp on a stock head, then do a little tweeking to the fuel managment and internals to reach around 400-450whp. Basically I want to have a tC that stomps my buddies in their civics and srt-4's(I am not talking basic stock civics and srt-4s either).
I do realize the AEM EMS is a better route to go if I try to get around 450-600hp out of my tC. But realisticly I am not made of that kind of money to even be thinking those numbers in horsepower right now! My ultimate goal is to get around 350whp on a stock head, then do a little tweeking to the fuel managment and internals to reach around 400-450whp. Basically I want to have a tC that stomps my buddies in their civics and srt-4's(I am not talking basic stock civics and srt-4s either).
04-05-2006, 05:11 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Well let me clear some things up. Turning up the boost on the Turbonetics kit absolutely does NOT require an EMS change. The EMS has controlled cars into the 800 HP range before and higher. The Unichip is also a MUCH more capable unit then the S-AFC in every regard. As for the power potential of the kits I can tell you that the Turbonetics kit made that power with an 11:1 AFR which is far richer then most anybody tunes to and on 91 octane no less. YOu could retune to 11.5:1 on any octane gas and make more then the SP kit does. Turbonetics releases it like that to keep it safe. Every component in the Turbonetics kit is good to 400+ WHP with tuning and raising boost. Turbonetics will be doing so very soon once the motor on one of their cars is built. Look for a 450 WHP Tc to be prowling the streets of Socal :D Thats with the out of box kit, tuning, and a built motor.
Wait you are saying that you can take a car making 240 WHP at 11-1 and retune it to 11.5-1 and make more than 260 WHP?
You sure about that?
04-05-2006, 05:26 AM
#23
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Is the unichip something you can tune yourself? I really do not know much about it so I am asking. So once you build the bottom end, lower the compression..... port the head, chancge the cams etc and need this unichip retuned.... how do you go about this? Aside from timing and fuel can the unichip do NOS control, shift the tranny, do closed loop correction, idle speed, two step launch control, anti lag, traction control, shift light, and about 50 other things that come standard with the AEM EMS?
Lets face it, the most important things you will need to make big HP are the turbo, a good header and good fuel management. Our kits come with a Garrett GT turbo, a stainless steel header (not cast manifold). We are now offering the AEM EMS as engine management for the Scion. Our kits come with a return boost referenced fuel system with a pump capable of 600+ HP. Our kits come with a Tial WG, and ceramic coatings and polishing standard.
While the Turbonetics kit surely is nice, the lack of fuel system, lack of a header type manifold and the lack of complete engine management will hold it back from making big HP. I designed our kit to be the most upgradable kit available with the most HP potential.
Larry
SP
Lets face it, the most important things you will need to make big HP are the turbo, a good header and good fuel management. Our kits come with a Garrett GT turbo, a stainless steel header (not cast manifold). We are now offering the AEM EMS as engine management for the Scion. Our kits come with a return boost referenced fuel system with a pump capable of 600+ HP. Our kits come with a Tial WG, and ceramic coatings and polishing standard.
While the Turbonetics kit surely is nice, the lack of fuel system, lack of a header type manifold and the lack of complete engine management will hold it back from making big HP. I designed our kit to be the most upgradable kit available with the most HP potential.
Larry
SP
04-05-2006, 05:32 AM
#24
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Larry, I've heard some good things about you from my boy who is a member on the Supra forums. Are you the one who is always competing with Ryan? I enjoy sittin in the parking lot listening to the updates on the "battles" for the records. I hear someone finally broke the 10's on the stock twins!!! WOOO
04-05-2006, 02:49 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Well let me clear some things up. Turning up the boost on the Turbonetics kit absolutely does NOT require an EMS change. The EMS has controlled cars into the 800 HP range before and higher. The Unichip is also a MUCH more capable unit then the S-AFC in every regard. As for the power potential of the kits I can tell you that the Turbonetics kit made that power with an 11:1 AFR which is far richer then most anybody tunes to and on 91 octane no less. YOu could retune to 11.5:1 on any octane gas and make more then the SP kit does. Turbonetics releases it like that to keep it safe. Every component in the Turbonetics kit is good to 400+ WHP with tuning and raising boost. Turbonetics will be doing so very soon once the motor on one of their cars is built. Look for a 450 WHP Tc to be prowling the streets of Socal :D Thats with the out of box kit, tuning, and a built motor.
Wait you are saying that you can take a car making 240 WHP at 11-1 and retune it to 11.5-1 and make more than 260 WHP?
Yes it can depending on how you add timing and where. How do I know, because I've done it. Running 11:1 on 91 octane fuel in Socal I made 371 RWHP. Switching to 101 the timing increase got me to 11.5:1 AFR and I put down 390 RWHP at the same boost pressure.
You sure about that?
04-05-2006, 02:54 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Is the unichip something you can tune yourself? I really do not know much about it so I am asking. So once you build the bottom end, lower the compression..... port the head, chancge the cams etc and need this unichip retuned.... how do you go about this? Aside from timing and fuel can the unichip do NOS control, shift the tranny, do closed loop correction, idle speed, two step launch control, anti lag, traction control, shift light, and about 50 other things that come standard with the AEM EMS?
Lets face it, the most important things you will need to make big HP are the turbo, a good header and good fuel management. Our kits come with a Garrett GT turbo, a stainless steel header (not cast manifold). We are now offering the AEM EMS as engine management for the Scion. Our kits come with a return boost referenced fuel system with a pump capable of 600+ HP. Our kits come with a Tial WG, and ceramic coatings and polishing standard.
While the Turbonetics kit surely is nice, the lack of fuel system, lack of a header type manifold and the lack of complete engine management will hold it back from making big HP. I designed our kit to be the most upgradable kit available with the most HP potential.
Larry
SP
Lets face it, the most important things you will need to make big HP are the turbo, a good header and good fuel management. Our kits come with a Garrett GT turbo, a stainless steel header (not cast manifold). We are now offering the AEM EMS as engine management for the Scion. Our kits come with a return boost referenced fuel system with a pump capable of 600+ HP. Our kits come with a Tial WG, and ceramic coatings and polishing standard.
While the Turbonetics kit surely is nice, the lack of fuel system, lack of a header type manifold and the lack of complete engine management will hold it back from making big HP. I designed our kit to be the most upgradable kit available with the most HP potential.
Larry
SP
04-05-2006, 04:35 PM
#27
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Let me start with your question about the Unichip. NO you have to go to an authorzied Unichip tuner to do this. Yes the Unichip can control a nitrous solenoid, intercooler sprayer, water/meth injection, closed loop boost control, idle speed and several other factors. Get this straight I never said it was BETTER then an AEM EMS. In fact I stated just the opposite. It is however a LOT better then the S-AFC. That is of course unless the S-AFC recently added 6 channel datalogging for up to 30 minutes via a blue tooth link since the Unichip Q does do that. There is no return fuel system on the kit because fuel pressure hasn't been an issue to 350 WHP that Turbonetics has taken their test car. Sure a SS header style manifold is nice but without proper bracing is more prone to cracking and fatigue. The cast manifold is built for reliability. Theres a reason most OEM companies use cast as opposed to ss for their turbo cars. I think I addressed you "complete" management claim already. When did your base lowest price kit come with an AEM EMS? Looks like an add on everywhere I've seen it...
Our base kit was designed for those that only want to go to about 400 WHP. After that point we feel that a built motor and the AEM are necessary.
There is no doubt that in todays world of quality headers, a SS header will outflow a cast manifold by far and still offer great reliability. We warranty our headers against cracking for lifetime!
It seems that both of our kits have some great parts. I am sure there is plenty of room in the market for both of our kits!
Larry
SP
04-05-2006, 04:46 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by SoundPerformance
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Let me start with your question about the Unichip. NO you have to go to an authorzied Unichip tuner to do this. Yes the Unichip can control a nitrous solenoid, intercooler sprayer, water/meth injection, closed loop boost control, idle speed and several other factors. Get this straight I never said it was BETTER then an AEM EMS. In fact I stated just the opposite. It is however a LOT better then the S-AFC. That is of course unless the S-AFC recently added 6 channel datalogging for up to 30 minutes via a blue tooth link since the Unichip Q does do that. There is no return fuel system on the kit because fuel pressure hasn't been an issue to 350 WHP that Turbonetics has taken their test car. Sure a SS header style manifold is nice but without proper bracing is more prone to cracking and fatigue. The cast manifold is built for reliability. Theres a reason most OEM companies use cast as opposed to ss for their turbo cars. I think I addressed you "complete" management claim already. When did your base lowest price kit come with an AEM EMS? Looks like an add on everywhere I've seen it...
Our base kit was designed for those that only want to go to about 400 WHP. After that point we feel that a built motor and the AEM are necessary.
There is no doubt that in todays world of quality headers, a SS header will outflow a cast manifold by far and still offer great reliability. We warranty our headers against cracking for lifetime!
It seems that both of our kits have some great parts. I am sure there is plenty of room in the market for both of our kits!
Larry
SP
04-05-2006, 04:51 PM
#29
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Yeah the unichip is a nice system. We're working on another platform so we can all find out what options work best for everyone. The more options the better.
I'd love to put each turbo kit company on one track and have a fun clean shootout and many categories. I may be heading out to AZ for good at the end of summer so we'll see where we're all doing this.
I'd love to put each turbo kit company on one track and have a fun clean shootout and many categories. I may be heading out to AZ for good at the end of summer so we'll see where we're all doing this.
04-05-2006, 04:55 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Joe_Dezod
Yeah the unichip is a nice system. We're working on another platform so we can all find out what options work best for everyone. The more options the better.
I'd love to put each turbo kit company on one track and have a fun clean shootout and many categories. I may be heading out to AZ for good at the end of summer so we'll see where we're all doing this.
I'd love to put each turbo kit company on one track and have a fun clean shootout and many categories. I may be heading out to AZ for good at the end of summer so we'll see where we're all doing this.
04-06-2006, 04:49 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by Parts_Pimp
I thought we wanted the same diver in all the cars... Not a problem I can call Ara I am sure he would do it for us... We were out at his shop tuning some customer cars not to long ago...
04-06-2006, 04:52 AM
#35
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When are you guys looking to do the shootout with all the kits? Im looking to open a shop in AZ in August. Either AZ or FL. Still trying to figure out which is best. Either way, it'll have a road course I can make some runs on. Along with everyone else in the area.
04-06-2006, 04:55 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Joe_Dezod
When are you guys looking to do the shootout with all the kits? Im looking to open a shop in AZ in August. Either AZ or FL. Still trying to figure out which is best. Either way, it'll have a road course I can make some runs on. Along with everyone else in the area.
04-06-2006, 05:28 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
Originally Posted by Joe_Dezod
When are you guys looking to do the shootout with all the kits? Im looking to open a shop in AZ in August. Either AZ or FL. Still trying to figure out which is best. Either way, it'll have a road course I can make some runs on. Along with everyone else in the area.
You know my cell, so like I said just call me when you want to talk more about this.
I'll be awaiting the phone call if you have new updates or just want to talk about this event in general. I can even drive out if you ever have a meeting.
04-06-2006, 07:36 AM
#38
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I would love to see some results from all the different companies. Would be awesome info for poeple who plan on boosting their car.
Also I wanna commend SP/MIAPLAYA/Joe @ Dezod for having a mature discussion...I'm used to the EVO forums where most of the vendors just bash each other left and right and don't have anything constructive to say.
Also I wanna commend SP/MIAPLAYA/Joe @ Dezod for having a mature discussion...I'm used to the EVO forums where most of the vendors just bash each other left and right and don't have anything constructive to say.