johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Installed my Neo and looks great but have not tuned any yet. I know the Neo is limited compared to the FIC & I have been reading up on the forums and have a few ?'s.

1. Cant tune under 4kRPM? This WILL throw a CEL but will the tune still keep???

2. No Partial Throttle Tune? WOT - Does the throttle position sensor (TPS Signal) have to read 100% (Pedal to floor) in order for the ECU to accept the tune?
EX. The neo allows you to set the tune at diff throttle points. If I set the tune at 65% throttle, will the ECU adjust or accept the reading from the Neo?

Any help or insight on the Neo and/or partial throttle tune/WOT would be appreciated!

draxcaliber

i would just stop what your doing, and ask for the number of a good shop with a well trained professional tuner if i were you.

aen

1. no the ecu will write everything over and change everything.
2. no, the tune wouldn't do much until you are in open loop mode. which is essentially WOT

if you watch your afr's they are constantly changing. why? the ecu is at fault,

jimmyjun

the ecu wont write everything over if you tune at wot, but if you tune at partial throttle it will. the apex neo doesnt have auto tune, so if you tune in summer at 80 degrees and in winter is 40 degrees make sure you visit the dyno to re tune or dont go wot on winter, because the lower the air temp the more leaner the afr gets. the settings that you have for summer wont be same for winter if there is a big diff in air temp like i mentioned. even here in puerto rico we have to re tune. summer here is 90ish and winter is 70ish sometimes 60s. hope u understood............

and yes wot is pedal 100% down.

it doesn matter to tune over 4krpm, when you shift the rpms dont drop that far down, you will still be on the tuning area(powerband).

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Thank you I do understand - Basically my ? iis at what voltage does the ECU consider it to be WOT. Should I set the tune on the Neo to go on at 100% throttle which is almost never - Even when I am romping on it, the throttle signal doesnt reach 100% usually - Is there a way to trick ECU to think the throttle is always at WOT so the fuel trims would be in open loop?

deathbyc4

get a dezod black box for partial throttle tuning but definately take it to a shop with a dyno

rhythmnsmoke

I wouldn't say WOT tuning would mean it has to be 100%. I would interpret that as Open loop vs Closed Loop. You will not be able to tune the Closed loop, but you should be able to tune Open Loop and have the tune stick.

At least for a while.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

I was reading the "Buyers guide scion tc fuel + ecu" thing - So open loop start at about 4krpm - So anything over 4k is open loop and I can tune for partial + full throttle? If the throttle at 50% over 4krpm it will tune partial throttle? Thanks again

deathbyc4

ecu will compensate for everything under 4k rpm, either full or partial. you have to use a piggyback to correct for the larger injectors under 4k otherwise it gives a CEL.

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

yup its closed loop vs. open loop should be a better description rather than partial throttle vs. WOT.. On closed loop, the O2 sensor feedback makes the ecu pull fuel to get back to 14.7 (stock tune).. when you are at WOT there is no O2 sensor feedback so how rich you tune it, it stays.. but it may not only be a closed loop/open loop issue, it could be just you engine management less suitable for the tc (reason why very few use them) or you need a protune that knows the tc and that ems well

PS i have a blackbox for sale, that might help your issue

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Partial Throttle--------------------- Wide Open Throttle
Cloosed Loop(under 4k/rpm) ------ Open Loop(over 4k/rpm)

I plan on tuning from 4250-8000 rpm in 250 rpm increments.
Im going to be using 440cc injectors so a CEL is not a worry.
I will be using an AEM Wideband EUGO.

If I am at 5000rpm and have the throttle(Pedal,TPS Signal) is only half (50%) pushed down, I will be able to tune and have the tune keep in those conditions correct?

rhythmnsmoke

I don't understand what you mean by Im going to be using 440cc injectors so a CEL is not a worry.


I might be wrong, but I thought Closed Loop vs Open Loop was based on Throttle position rather than a certain RPM (i.e. 4000rpm). For example, if you are only at 35% Throttle (Part throttle), and you let it go above 4krpm, I think you are still in Closed Loop. Some one correct me if not.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

that is exactly my question rythmsmoke thank you! SP racing used the Neo they had to get it to work some how.

By the 440cc comment I just meant it wont throw a CEL like the 550cc.

rhythmnsmoke

Having 440cc injectors does not guarantee you will not throw a Cel. Injector size does not effect throwing a CEL. I have/had 550cc, and had no CEL (I have 750cc's now). I sold my 550cc's to my boy Louis and he is completely CEL free. It has to do all with tuning, and if you have the Anti-Fouler mod on your secondary 02 sensor.

So, don't be afraid to go larger injectors. PTuning was running 650cc injectors CEL free on their Time Attack car. Now they have 900cc injectors I believe.

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

DAMN thats huge - I jsut meant in regards to when they are installed without a tune-just dropped in before tune-I wish some one could answer our question!!!!

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Spoke with Paul at Dezod - He gave me APPROXIMATE closed/open loop transition. It is a combination of 2 things APPROXIMATELY!

RPM between 4000-4500

AND

Throttle at 80% or higher.

Meaning: You must be over 4000/4500 rpm and be at 80%+ throttle.
Making it a little hard to tune with the Neo.

440cc injectors with neo tune at 80% throttle - tuned from 4250-8000K @ 8 PSI
Obviously will run rich under 4000K but better than lean

johnhawkins

iTrader: (1)

Then I will eventually get the URDUSA.com Closed Loop AFR modifer that allows you to adjust the AFR based on boost pressure during closed loop!!!!!!!!!!!1 WHEEWWWWWWWWWWW BOOOSTTT

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

under 4k (cloosed loop) you will more likely to be lean than rich.. even if you tune with boost pressure, you still need to do something about O2 sensor feedback that causes leaning of afrs.. e.g. the aem fic tunes with boost pressure at the same time it has an O2 spoofer that changes the voltage from the O2 sensor so it wont make the afrs lean..

but the neo allows you to rev up to 8k?