DEZOD MOTORSPORTS: ALPHA SERIES V-band Manifold Installed (Page 21)
08-27-2010, 06:30 PM
#322
Ok Guys I know I haven't been posting in a while its been Hectic as all hell building the car getting it tuned and getting it race ready! Well any ways this is how it goes!!!
So we finally get the car all done up ready for tune!!! Dezod Alpha series with ASR Motorsports Charge pipes, Intercooler, and inlet pipe, RC 1000cc peak and hold injectors, Dezod/ASR one off Oil cooler setup, Hydra Nemesis stand alone, Dezod return fuel system with Aeromotive Fuel Pressure regulator, ASR S-Pipe back straight out the middle exhaust, VP C16 Racing fuel, Built Motor...
Well we got the car on the dyno here at Vinny Ten Racing went through some problems minor stuff nothing to worry about. We load tuned it for 2 days getting everything nice and smoot for when it was ready to make some wide open throttle pulls to see what this bad boy could do. We finally strapped it down for the final time to make some minor adjustments and to start making some horsepower. We started off at 14 psi we were making full boost around 3800/4000, and making some good numbers (380WHP with 420 WTQ), but thats not what we were shooting for we were looking for something around the 500-550 WHP range (its a time attack car ;)). So we bumped the boost up to 18 psi making a few runs and reving the motor to 7500 RPMS, we Made 420WHP and 460 WTQ at 18 PSI with the same spool time as 14 PSI (allso this may sound low for the GT3582R but just for you Ptuning fan boys out there this was b4 we touched the variable valve timing where we had 70 WHP sitting on the table
at the same boost level). Well we were doing one more run b4 we touched the variable valve timing and all hell broke loose and when I say broke loose i mean broke loose. It ended up with a rod through the block of my motor 
. Now!!! this is not caused by the kit or the tune this is caused by ZPI D-Bags not doing what I payed them to do years ago (no big surprise there I know). I sent them Carrillo rods which where not in my motor they put stock rods back in and thats why the rod broke and took out my entire motor. It didnt even brake at high rpm it broke at 4700 right when peak TQ comes in and Says Hey whats up motor lets makes some MOF___in Tq b!tches. So low and behold thats all the numbers I have for you ringht now but it wont be to long till I have the motor back up and running with some nasty parts built here at Vinny Ten Racing and will have some serious HP numbers for ya. BTW I already have a new motor ;)
So we finally get the car all done up ready for tune!!! Dezod Alpha series with ASR Motorsports Charge pipes, Intercooler, and inlet pipe, RC 1000cc peak and hold injectors, Dezod/ASR one off Oil cooler setup, Hydra Nemesis stand alone, Dezod return fuel system with Aeromotive Fuel Pressure regulator, ASR S-Pipe back straight out the middle exhaust, VP C16 Racing fuel, Built Motor...
Well we got the car on the dyno here at Vinny Ten Racing went through some problems minor stuff nothing to worry about. We load tuned it for 2 days getting everything nice and smoot for when it was ready to make some wide open throttle pulls to see what this bad boy could do. We finally strapped it down for the final time to make some minor adjustments and to start making some horsepower. We started off at 14 psi we were making full boost around 3800/4000, and making some good numbers (380WHP with 420 WTQ), but thats not what we were shooting for we were looking for something around the 500-550 WHP range (its a time attack car ;)). So we bumped the boost up to 18 psi making a few runs and reving the motor to 7500 RPMS, we Made 420WHP and 460 WTQ at 18 PSI with the same spool time as 14 PSI (allso this may sound low for the GT3582R but just for you Ptuning fan boys out there this was b4 we touched the variable valve timing where we had 70 WHP sitting on the table
at the same boost level). Well we were doing one more run b4 we touched the variable valve timing and all hell broke loose and when I say broke loose i mean broke loose. It ended up with a rod through the block of my motor . Now!!! this is not caused by the kit or the tune this is caused by ZPI D-Bags not doing what I payed them to do years ago (no big surprise there I know). I sent them Carrillo rods which where not in my motor they put stock rods back in and thats why the rod broke and took out my entire motor. It didnt even brake at high rpm it broke at 4700 right when peak TQ comes in and Says Hey whats up motor lets makes some MOF___in Tq b!tches. So low and behold thats all the numbers I have for you ringht now but it wont be to long till I have the motor back up and running with some nasty parts built here at Vinny Ten Racing and will have some serious HP numbers for ya. BTW I already have a new motor ;)IN FOR END RESULTS!
12-15-2010, 07:29 AM
#324
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Kudo's....lol.
So, in short of what I posted over on the other thread. More or less the Alpha parts cater to those looking to bump up out of their entry level setups as stated. However, in most if not all the entry level setups, people are running 2.0 and 2.5 Intercooler piping, and intercoolers that support a mid-power number (perhaps 400whp or less, don't quote me on that). To take the Alpha gear and mesh it with any part from the entry level kit, would be counter productive...imo. The parts that matter to making the setup efficient that is. This setup would not be as sufficient running a 2.0 and 2.5 fmic pipes and entry level fmic. So, that leaves having to re-fabricate new piping anyway since it does not come with this extra gear.
And for someone without any turbo setup already who wants to dive in with the big boys from the get go, they would have to fabricate piping as well, obviously.
Of course I'm not saying that you can't do it if on a budget by trying to make your entry level gear work with it, just saying....it would not be efficient and utilizing the better features of the gear....which is to go big with.
There are no entry level setups on the market I am aware of, that would not bottle neck the Alpha gear if you mix-matched the two and tried to use old parts.
So, in short of what I posted over on the other thread. More or less the Alpha parts cater to those looking to bump up out of their entry level setups as stated. However, in most if not all the entry level setups, people are running 2.0 and 2.5 Intercooler piping, and intercoolers that support a mid-power number (perhaps 400whp or less, don't quote me on that). To take the Alpha gear and mesh it with any part from the entry level kit, would be counter productive...imo. The parts that matter to making the setup efficient that is. This setup would not be as sufficient running a 2.0 and 2.5 fmic pipes and entry level fmic. So, that leaves having to re-fabricate new piping anyway since it does not come with this extra gear.
And for someone without any turbo setup already who wants to dive in with the big boys from the get go, they would have to fabricate piping as well, obviously.
Of course I'm not saying that you can't do it if on a budget by trying to make your entry level gear work with it, just saying....it would not be efficient and utilizing the better features of the gear....which is to go big with.
There are no entry level setups on the market I am aware of, that would not bottle neck the Alpha gear if you mix-matched the two and tried to use old parts.
12-15-2010, 01:43 PM
#325
Kudo's....lol.
So, in short of what I posted over on the other thread. More or less the Alpha parts cater to those looking to bump up out of their entry level setups as stated. However, in most if not all the entry level setups, people are running 2.0 and 2.5 Intercooler piping, and intercoolers that support a mid-power number (perhaps 400whp or less, don't quote me on that). To take the Alpha gear and mesh it with any part from the entry level kit, would be counter productive...imo. The parts that matter to making the setup efficient that is. This setup would not be as sufficient running a 2.0 and 2.5 fmic pipes and entry level fmic. So, that leaves having to re-fabricate new piping anyway since it does not come with this extra gear.
And for someone without any turbo setup already who wants to dive in with the big boys from the get go, they would have to fabricate piping as well, obviously.
Of course I'm not saying that you can't do it if on a budget by trying to make your entry level gear work with it, just saying....it would not be efficient and utilizing the better features of the gear....which is to go big with.
There are no entry level setups on the market I am aware of, that would not bottle neck the Alpha gear if you mix-matched the two and tried to use old parts.
So, in short of what I posted over on the other thread. More or less the Alpha parts cater to those looking to bump up out of their entry level setups as stated. However, in most if not all the entry level setups, people are running 2.0 and 2.5 Intercooler piping, and intercoolers that support a mid-power number (perhaps 400whp or less, don't quote me on that). To take the Alpha gear and mesh it with any part from the entry level kit, would be counter productive...imo. The parts that matter to making the setup efficient that is. This setup would not be as sufficient running a 2.0 and 2.5 fmic pipes and entry level fmic. So, that leaves having to re-fabricate new piping anyway since it does not come with this extra gear.
And for someone without any turbo setup already who wants to dive in with the big boys from the get go, they would have to fabricate piping as well, obviously.
Of course I'm not saying that you can't do it if on a budget by trying to make your entry level gear work with it, just saying....it would not be efficient and utilizing the better features of the gear....which is to go big with.
There are no entry level setups on the market I am aware of, that would not bottle neck the Alpha gear if you mix-matched the two and tried to use old parts.
If someone wants to make 600whp on their tC, then obviously they need to address essential issues like the intercooler and injector size etc. However, some fellas may stop at the 400-450whp mark and de-tune for the street for daily driving. This, in form, allows one to use slightly under-powered components for the time being. Is it perfect by any means? No. Can and will it get the job done? Yes.
I am not recommending being stingy on the essentials that make power, but also let's face it, no bolt-on kit on the market will effectively support 600whp on the market. If an owner DOES in fact want to make that type of power on any production kit out there (insert any competitor's kit or our S1) they are going to have to address several of the SAME components as stated above.
So, with this being said, if you must spend the money twice, what sense does ANY kit have to make that power if you MUST replace 3/4s of it. THIS premise is why the Alpha exists the way it is. It's for the fella whom wants the biggest, baddest and best right off the bat and has to customize their setup to their budget and power level needs.
We are not in the business of telling the customer they need to have this BOV because we decided we needed it the kit. Or this sized intercooler because we get a great deal on it and you must suffer at the higher HP levels with it. Same with injectors, engine management etc.
Our philosophy is we know you need these parts "as is" to make this amount of power. Please take them. What else you may need, let's talk about your budget and power goals and make the rest happen for you.
Making big power is not hard. It's just a function of the right parts, $ and tuning. Getting it all together in a budget that makes the customer thrilled and grinning from ear to ear, that's the real challenge. That's where our Alpha Series and tech support comes into play.
12-15-2010, 02:21 PM
#326
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One man's opinion.
If someone wants to make 600whp on their tC, then obviously they need to address essential issues like the intercooler and injector size etc. However, some fellas may stop at the 400-450whp mark and de-tune for the street for daily driving. This, in form, allows one to use slightly under-powered components for the time being. Is it perfect by any means? No. Can and will it get the job done? Yes.
If someone wants to make 600whp on their tC, then obviously they need to address essential issues like the intercooler and injector size etc. However, some fellas may stop at the 400-450whp mark and de-tune for the street for daily driving. This, in form, allows one to use slightly under-powered components for the time being. Is it perfect by any means? No. Can and will it get the job done? Yes.
I am not recommending being stingy on the essentials that make power, but also let's face it, no bolt-on kit on the market will effectively support 600whp on the market.
If an owner DOES in fact want to make that type of power on any production kit out there (insert any competitor's kit or our S1) they are going to have to address several of the SAME components as stated above.
If an owner DOES in fact want to make that type of power on any production kit out there (insert any competitor's kit or our S1) they are going to have to address several of the SAME components as stated above.
Aside from changing the turbo, adding a Fuel return setup and bigger injectors...that statement is not true. Changing/adding those components is not conducive to fabricating or having fmic pipes fabricated and having to get those components as well (you include a 35R, but so can everyone else). In either case, you still have to do more to make the Alpha gear work. Just an honest observation.
So, with this being said, if you must spend the money twice, what sense does ANY kit have to make that power if you MUST replace 3/4s of it. THIS premise is why the Alpha exists the way it is. It's for the fella whom wants the biggest, baddest and best right off the bat and has to customize their setup to their budget and power level needs.
12-15-2010, 02:41 PM
#327
if i just did the math correctly the intercooler dezod has supports nearly 500hp...i just need to know the core length to make sure. I tried to deduct for the endtanks but of course thats just an estimate
12-15-2010, 02:48 PM
#328
12-15-2010, 03:18 PM
#330
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That's what I'm saying. If the entry level kits most people have already can get up to 400 +/- then what's the point in changing over to Alpha gear only to continue to stay at 400 +/-. I would imagine that if you are in the market for this, then you are looking for well into the 5-600+whp area. Alpha was made for bigger aspirations than 400-475whp I would have thought. So, again, back to my original observation....you going to have to fabricate pipes and purchase all this stuff over again. You might as well say it's a new custom kit rather than trying to advertise it as an upgrade to entry level kits when you are going to be replace 98% of the entry level kit with Alpha parts and new fabricated parts. That's all I was saying. Not a negative thing in the least, just using common sense and thinking out loud.
12-15-2010, 03:19 PM
#332
Can't the current entry level kits support 400whp though?
Aside from changing the turbo, adding a Fuel return setup and bigger injectors...that statement is not true. Changing/adding those components is not conducive to fabricating or having fmic pipes fabricated and having to get those components as well (you include a 35R, but so can everyone else). In either case, you still have to do more to make the Alpha gear work. Just an honest observation.
Aside from changing the turbo, adding a Fuel return setup and bigger injectors...that statement is not true. Changing/adding those components is not conducive to fabricating or having fmic pipes fabricated and having to get those components as well (you include a 35R, but so can everyone else). In either case, you still have to do more to make the Alpha gear work. Just an honest observation.
I understand this setup is not for everyone. Making 400+whp is not for everyone either.
I can't speak on other's behalfs, so I can not comment on others designs, but only ours. I can tell you our S1 is rated to 400HP to the crank (aka ~350whp). This is also about the same for the Turbonetics, GReddy, TT Simple, ZPI....I do not have enough experience with the other kits to speak on their behalf.
With respect to changing gear, this would have to be done with just about any of the kits aforementioned above. I am sure there are more components that would need to be changed in other kits as well.
The GT35R, you are right. Almost any kit manufacturer out there such as PTuning or Descendant can offer a GT35R with their setup. That is 100% true. No disputing that. However, T-netics, GReddy, TT simple, TT others....CAN NOT.
The fact of the matter is that other kit manufacturers are offering PTE variant turbochargers. That is fine and dandy as well. We used to sell a lot of PTE turbos until we had massive quality issues with them. I am speaking about ordering 10 turbos at a time, then having to send back 7 of them on warranty within the first 6 months. The learning curve has been satisfied here, which is why we do not use PTE in our turbo kits anymore. We use genuine Garrett units. These are some of the highest quality turbochargers on the market. Now with the edition of the 35X and the HTA variant 35R at our disposal, we feel that out product stands out from the crowd. These new variants allow us to offer the same frame and base turbo, but with better spool properties, same quality and better power power potential.
We chose to use a higher quality unit than the PTE. Also, our turbine housing is stainless steel and made by TiAL. The entire turbo weighs about 12lbs as a whole (even with the S compressor cover on it) compared to 18-20lbs via PTE or any standard cast iron turbine housing. The PTE cast iron variant will corrode, can split and/or crack as well. The TiAL is a stronger, more high quality unit as a whole.
Lastly, we offer full v-band technology with one of the highest quality turbocharger on the market. I feel the choice remains clear for those whom are looking for top notch parts with quality and piece of mind: Dezod Alpha.
Hand TIG welded and made here in the USA
I mean, companies like Full Race thrive on this premise. Look for yourself. The theory is that if you are man enough and smart enough to make this type of power, then you do not need someone to hold your hand through the process.
It's then a big boy routine. See for your self:
Notice the big power cars that make proven power and how there offerings are
2JZGTE "kit", but only includes manifold, downpipe and wastegates:
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1743
Another 2J one:
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1762
MR2, note just manis and downpipes offered:
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/ind...?cPath=839_871
DSM 1G & 2G
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/ind...th=840_843_844
Of course they make full kits though for several apps, however most of these are older Hondas and such, which is how they got their "on" to begin with.
Thanks for the questions Travis.
12-15-2010, 03:23 PM
#333
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The more cost effective approach would be for someone looking to make good power later to start off with Alpha parts to begin with. It's not exactly cost effective trying to upgrade from an already installed entry kit, other than saving on management (granted you don't have a E-Blue).
Again though that goes back to having to fabricate all the stuff, which is cool for people who want to take up that task. I wouldn't mind doing that if I had the tools, would be fun. Only thinking out loud at the extra work having to be done to make this work, compared to other full kits and Tuner kits you can purchase, as the Alpha is the least inclusive system for the tC at this point....that's being touted as a "kit" that is.
Again though that goes back to having to fabricate all the stuff, which is cool for people who want to take up that task. I wouldn't mind doing that if I had the tools, would be fun. Only thinking out loud at the extra work having to be done to make this work, compared to other full kits and Tuner kits you can purchase, as the Alpha is the least inclusive system for the tC at this point....that's being touted as a "kit" that is.
12-15-2010, 03:31 PM
#334
The more cost effective approach would be for someone looking to make good power later to start off with Alpha parts to begin with. It's not exactly cost effective trying to upgrade from an already installed entry kit, other than saving on management (granted you don't have a E-Blue).
Again though that goes back to having to fabricate all the stuff, which is cool for people who want to take up that task. I wouldn't mind doing that if I had the tools, would be fun. Only thinking out loud at the extra work having to be done to make this work, compared to other full kits and Tuner kits you can purchase, as the Alpha is the least inclusive system for the tC at this point....that's being touted as a "kit" that is.
Again though that goes back to having to fabricate all the stuff, which is cool for people who want to take up that task. I wouldn't mind doing that if I had the tools, would be fun. Only thinking out loud at the extra work having to be done to make this work, compared to other full kits and Tuner kits you can purchase, as the Alpha is the least inclusive system for the tC at this point....that's being touted as a "kit" that is.
Again, it's not for everyone. We all know that. Neither is making that power, as stated. We know your stance on it. I appreciate your feedback (really I do).
People "make" parts each and every day. People buy EBAY IC pipes and cut them up to make fit. People do the same with ours to fit various other kits out there. It's not difficult to me personally, however it may be to you. A local muffler shop or a friend with a welder in your area can easily make you IC pipes for a mere few hundred dollars. Again, to each their own.
Have a great day Travis.
12-15-2010, 03:36 PM
#335
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Travis, I do not want to sit here and bicker with you. We all know how you are about your opinions and where you stand behind them. That is fine and dandy, but not everyone is going to agree with you or me either. I know people will not agree with our stance on the setup. It's all a matter of opinion...("opinions are like butt holes, everybody has them and they all stink"--Anonymous) That has been accepted a long time ago. Those that have agreed with it, purchased it and are using it are VERY pleased.
It's really not about agreeing or disagreeing about the opinions on the setup itself. As mentioned, it could be fun if you want to tinker and get that feeling of creating something. It's more or less the approach/marketing behind it, that I don't think is clear enough for the less knowledgeable people in all what is involved when going this route. When reading the description a noob might be enticed to think you can just slap this together with your current entry level kit, and this will magically make more HP. Of course you can't babysit every noob, but perhaps a few comments on a forum can do some good rather than none.
Would have to be changed with the majority which is the ones you mentioned. But not all the kits are like that. So, when you make something like the Alpha components and tout them for being the next level upgrade, then you only have one option to compare it to, since it's the only other kit that is Next Level. But that kit is all inclusive, unlike the Alpha.
Problem with that is we can not compare Alpha series to GReddy, TT simple, T-netics. We have to compare it to Descendant and PTuning. S1 and S2 would be compared to GReddy, TT, T-netics...etc.
The last part about the turbo and other company offerings I didn't bother to comment on as it really wasn't much said that was relevant to what I'm talking about. I did get a sense though that you had the approach that this was the only way to make big power cause a full kit for big power was not available or can't be made, when there is a kit available that's fully inclusive that has been proven to make big power already.
Again, we have but one choice to make a comparison with. All I've done was try and rationalize why you would take this route vs the other. Only reason I've come up with is that you just want to adventure in creating it. That's all.
Got to get back to work, but thanks a bunch for letting me pick your brain in trying to understand more about why Dezod has chosen this route for better or worse.
12-15-2010, 03:40 PM
#336
It's really not about agreeing or disagreeing about the opinions on the setup itself. As mentioned, it could be fun if you want to tinker and get that feeling of creating something. It's more or less the approach/marketing behind it, that I don't think is clear enough for the less knowledgeable people in all what is involved when going this route. When reading the description a noob might be enticed to think you can just slap this together with your current entry level kit, and this will magically make more HP. Of course you can't babysit every noob, but perhaps a few comments on a forum can do some good rather than none.
People contact us regularly about their setups and such.
12-15-2010, 03:44 PM
#338
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Again, it's not for everyone. We all know that. Neither is making that power, as stated. We know your stance on it. I appreciate your feedback (really I do).
People "make" parts each and every day. People buy EBAY IC pipes and cut them up to make fit. People do the same with ours to fit various other kits out there. It's not difficult to me personally, however it may be to you. A local muffler shop or a friend with a welder in your area can easily make you IC pipes for a mere few hundred dollars. Again, to each their own.
Have a great day Travis.
People "make" parts each and every day. People buy EBAY IC pipes and cut them up to make fit. People do the same with ours to fit various other kits out there. It's not difficult to me personally, however it may be to you. A local muffler shop or a friend with a welder in your area can easily make you IC pipes for a mere few hundred dollars. Again, to each their own.
Have a great day Travis.
LOL...You know I'm not one of those mentionable people who would find it hard to fabricate parts.
I do my own work, but I'm not above purchasing already engineered to perform setups either. Aight, truly got to jump off now. Finish up work and change the 1yr olds diaper....lol. Damn boy can bring the funk!
12-15-2010, 03:45 PM
#339
That's what I'm saying. If the entry level kits most people have already can get up to 400 +/- then what's the point in changing over to Alpha gear only to continue to stay at 400 +/-. I would imagine that if you are in the market for this, then you are looking for well into the 5-600+whp area. Alpha was made for bigger aspirations than 400-475whp I would have thought. So, again, back to my original observation....you going to have to fabricate pipes and purchase all this stuff over again. You might as well say it's a new custom kit rather than trying to advertise it as an upgrade to entry level kits when you are going to be replace 98% of the entry level kit with Alpha parts and new fabricated parts. That's all I was saying. Not a negative thing in the least, just using common sense and thinking out loud.
this is just my thinking and yeah i could be way off on this but
s1=350-400hp (given a few variables) (limited by turbo choice)
alpha= 400-500 (gt35r will support up to 600) (limited by s1 gear)
the big difference is going to be effeciency= more heat is generated trying to compress enough air to make 400hp with the spec turbo than gt35r.
less boost is needed to make target hp with 35r.
potentialy gain 100hp or more upgrading to alpha.
imho charge pipes are cheaper and easy to make.
I gurantee that i can spend much less than 400 bux for a new intercooler and charge pipes. (and thats if i have someone do it for me!)
so here goes...take the price of the alpha kit 3350 then tach on 400=3750
so spend 3750 and have the ability to make 600hp
other kits cost 4700 (with 4700 you only get a t3/t4 tubo, not a gt35r)....thats a savings of over a grand...
you know what a grand would buy me? return fuel system perhaps...maybe an ic sprayer....drag slicks....list goes on.
12-15-2010, 03:53 PM
#340
LOL...You know I'm not one of those mentionable people who would find it hard to fabricate parts. I do my own work, but I'm not above purchasing already engineered to perform setups either. Aight, truly got to jump off now. Finish up work and change the 1yr olds diaper....lol.
Damn boy can bring the funk!
I do my own work, but I'm not above purchasing already engineered to perform setups either. Aight, truly got to jump off now. Finish up work and change the 1yr olds diaper....lol. Damn boy can bring the funk!
I change my 10 month old daughters diapers when I go home too man.
Hell, I even make here own food. I mean no jar food here baby!