Dezod Performance Short Blocks
09-23-2009, 11:40 AM
#41
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 4,156
09-23-2009, 01:34 PM
#42
Not trying to thread jack but why do you sell these SLEEVED? We run 40psi + & make over 900 LBS of torque on a stock block / sleeve combo.
Seems pointless to do that much machine work to something that doesn’t need it...let alone the Darton MID has terrible cooling characteristics for street applications. They work great for race / extreme conditions of Honda's & other weak block designs but defiantly not needed in the 2AZFE.
Seems pointless to do that much machine work to something that doesn’t need it...let alone the Darton MID has terrible cooling characteristics for street applications. They work great for race / extreme conditions of Honda's & other weak block designs but defiantly not needed in the 2AZFE.
u run 40 psi on stock sleeves? how long would that last daily driving a car?
09-23-2009, 01:39 PM
#43
Not trying to thread jack but why do you sell these SLEEVED? We run 40psi + & make over 900 LBS of torque on a stock block / sleeve combo.
Seems pointless to do that much machine work to something that doesn’t need it...let alone the Darton MID has terrible cooling characteristics for street applications. They work great for race / extreme conditions of Honda's & other weak block designs but defiantly not needed in the 2AZFE.
Seems pointless to do that much machine work to something that doesn’t need it...let alone the Darton MID has terrible cooling characteristics for street applications. They work great for race / extreme conditions of Honda's & other weak block designs but defiantly not needed in the 2AZFE.
Again, thanks for the bump!
What standalone engine management is your car running? Motec.
What type of $$ did it cost to setup? $3-4K+
How much tuning time does your team have into tuning it? Probably 80+ hours
How many motors did Rado pop getting to this point? I know of at least 3.
So with this being said, 99.8% of these Scion street turbo system guys will not spend that type of $$ on their build, engine management, tuning and such. A large portion of these fellas are DIY tuners and are learning the trade, therefore with their expertise being down they need a large margin for error and insurance. The few that do hire pro reputable tuners only pay the guy for 3-6 hours. A full comprehensive map can not be built in that short amount of time. If it could, why wouldn't GM, Honda, Toyota etc all hire these excellent tuners to set up their OEM cals in a jiff instead of spending thousands of hours in dyno cells for one just one cal on one vehicle.
This is why the blocks are sleeved.
09-23-2009, 01:43 PM
#44
that tranny is sick.. back to the sleeving, yeah its for longevity.. most of us dont have frequent access and constant time and money for rebuild if it fails. Also rado has some crazy EMS, electronics, running race gas and a whole crew to do the motor... I dont see rado using same exact motor for the next 5 years, but most of us do. And isnt Darton dezod is using open decked? it seems like it is from the description.. darton i think should be fine on the streets, driving off boost shouldnt create too much heat..
09-23-2009, 05:28 PM
#46
This experience, our racing heritage, and our highly experienced staff of machinists and racing engine builders offered a unique set of blended talent to solve inherent block weakness design in the currently available engines where bore sizes were intended to be increased. Many production cast iron and aluminum blocks suffer from a design weakness of cylinder stability by nature of poor support at the upper deck area. The manufacturing process of "cast in sleeves" provides for economy of scale in low horsepower engines, but does not accommodate high horsepower, high boost, or larger bore sizes. Darton has engineered a superior patented (patent #6,799,541) solution by using a unique designed cylinder sleeve which when siamesed and nested, creates a solid deck of sleeve flanges held in tension, reinforcing the upper deck area and provides for individual replacement with what we call Modular Integrated Deck (MID).
In addition, Darton designs' manage and enhance water flow from block to head to promote stability of cooling and all sleeves are of the "Wet" design. The enhanced water flow in and around the flange area is possible because of ported water flow control engineering we call "Swirl Coolant Technology™". This process begins with specific engineering models of respective cylinder head and combustion chamber designs and then we promote increased flow of water in those areas of the upper sleeve area subjected to the most heat. Heat is also dissipated through the use of " Register Fins"™. There is a different engineering model for each engine and cylinder design. While heat is generally considered to translate into energy, high resident heat in the combustion chamber can lead to detonation, the single highest cause of engine failure in the high horsepower regimes.
High RPM normally translates into efficient scavenging of airflow but during misfires or incomplete flame propagation, high cylinder pressures and temperatures are created. Our MID™ design compensates for this high resident heat soak condition. In the normal dry sleeve installation the cooling medium, water, must transfer heat absorption through block material and sleeves, which may be dissimilar metals. When dry sleeves are pressed in with interference fit, the materials interface is not perfect which further exacerbates heat transfer. This thermal conductivity is inefficient and as more heat is generated, the combustion process is compromised.
Even in wet sleeve designs of the past, water is never efficiently processed or flowed between the block and head to provide for maximum heat dissipation in the combustion chamber. Inherent in open or closed deck engine blocks of cast iron or aluminum is a certain amount of water stagnation. This is like pouring water through a funnel, there is really no flow or velocity until the water exits the spigot. In the case of blocks and heads, the casting ports are designed for ease of casting not efficient flow. Now with Darton's "MID", Swirl Coolant technology the cooling medium is ported and directed to significantly improve heat transfer where it is needed most, in the upper cylinder wall/flange area.
Now that Darton has solved the design issue of cylinder weakness another issue with wet sleeves is the sleeves exterior surface. In a standard wet sleeve design sleeves are punished by turbulent coolant often causing corrosion or rust. Darton now supplies the MID sleeves with a phosphate coating. Phosphate coating is the treatment with a solution whereby the surface of the metal is covered with an integral, protective layer of insoluble crystalline. This microcrystalline structure on the MID sleeve makes it optimal for corrosion and rust resistance.
Additionally this adds another protective barrier for the o-rings in the lower register of the sleeve extending their lifespan even longer. This coating resists abrasion from the hot turbulent water flow that is created in the water jacket area of the block. This aids the elimination of hot spots in the compression area allowing you to make more power. This coating makes the MID sleeves impervious to problems most commonly found in all wet sleeved blocks. Adding the phosphate coating to the MID sleeve is just another way Darton is constantly evolving sleeve design and the way the industry perceives the way you can sleeve a block.
The Darton MID™ Sleeve Kit is available for many series of 4, 6, and 8 cylinder import and domestic engines and provides for maximum bore sizes and boost potential. The benefits of our MIDseries kits are:
- Cast iron performance in an aluminum block
- Improved block integral strength
- Improved cooling
- Kits can be installed by your local machine shop
- "Wet sleeve" replace-ability
- Full installation manual available on website
- Increased horsepower output potential
- High boost and horsepower potential
- Superior oil and compression control
- Superior cylinder sealing and ring wear
- Street or strip application
- Bulletproof Darton ductile iron,
- 130,000-psi tensile strength
09-25-2009, 01:03 PM
#55
09-25-2009, 02:48 PM
#56
09-25-2009, 03:33 PM
#57
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tomball, Texas
Posts: 926
Hey Paul, know what Dezod needs a thread on?
Turn Key Built 2AZ-FE Engines
I'm a lazy bastard. I pay for convience. Don't beleive me? Ask crush. Don said you guys can do it (check first page for post). I sent a PM to Don concerning this, but shortly after he was banned or whatever.
Like Chin said, Long Block option, but Turn Key would be that much better.
Basically what I need to know to submit to the WIFE for approval is what it would come with and cost. Itemized list of both. PM me about it Paul.
Turn Key Built 2AZ-FE Engines
I'm a lazy bastard. I pay for convience. Don't beleive me? Ask crush. Don said you guys can do it (check first page for post). I sent a PM to Don concerning this, but shortly after he was banned or whatever.
Like Chin said, Long Block option, but Turn Key would be that much better.
Basically what I need to know to submit to the WIFE for approval is what it would come with and cost. Itemized list of both. PM me about it Paul.
09-25-2009, 04:22 PM
#59
Hey Paul, know what Dezod needs a thread on?
Turn Key Built 2AZ-FE Engines
I'm a lazy bastard. I pay for convience. Don't beleive me? Ask crush. Don said you guys can do it (check first page for post). I sent a PM to Don concerning this, but shortly after he was banned or whatever.
Like Chin said, Long Block option, but Turn Key would be that much better.
Basically what I need to know to submit to the WIFE for approval is what it would come with and cost. Itemized list of both. PM me about it Paul.
Turn Key Built 2AZ-FE Engines
I'm a lazy bastard. I pay for convience. Don't beleive me? Ask crush. Don said you guys can do it (check first page for post). I sent a PM to Don concerning this, but shortly after he was banned or whatever.
Like Chin said, Long Block option, but Turn Key would be that much better.
Basically what I need to know to submit to the WIFE for approval is what it would come with and cost. Itemized list of both. PM me about it Paul.