lundy

i'm not saying i know it all or my word is "god" just that i make more power @4200 feet above sea level on a dyno that apperently reads low(175whp @ 7psi) than most people with the s/c with mods. i must be doing something right.

FLINT

Nick06tC

If someone states something as a FACT (thread title facts about superchargers), they are claiming that what is said is true and indisputable. So you made a thread and said that what you say is FACT, the truth, indisputable...therefor you think your word is bond and nothing else. And no you arent do anything right. You bought a product and had it put on your car.

Either you are part of ForceFed or you arent. You cant have it both ways of being a happy unbiased customer...and being ther person who is doing something right (making good power)

I dont contend that the product isnt good, because it is and I want those numbers, I am contending the delivery. As I have done with another company on here. Unfortunatly, the internet takes out human face to face no BS, service. Therefore, delivery is everything.
If I aim to do nothing else, its to inform you of what the consumer sees, and the consumer sees Bullsh1t in the delivery.
You may think this is not so, but am I not the consumer? Yes I am and I see bullsh1t in the delivery.

HighlanderMac

OK.. you didnt make 237.6hp at 4200ft above sea level...
You made 212.2 whp at 4200 ft which transfers to 237.6hp at sea level. On your origional dyno at 175hp was that at sea level or at 4200ft??
And you still have not answered my question.. Why am I still at 9lbs of boost with a header and 3" exhaust with NO CATS???? I would just love to see some dyno sheets, and also hear your answer to my question.

Nick06tC

Wow that changes things...ALOT.

Is it true tho?

Wyatt_Herb

Although it may have become somewhat hostile, I believe everybody would like to see this product (amongst others) work its miracles. Why would we not? More info, numbers, dynos, pictures, etc. would convince the population of its effectiveness.
Like Mac said, he has the setup to disprove the "loss of psi" claim with a header and no cat. And not that the vortech guys are wrong and/or don't know what they're doing, its just...



COME ON! WE ALL WOULD LOVE 250 HORSEPOWER!

As long as its safe...

HighlanderMac

I am not saying that the header definately added power.. I have yet to get a dyno after the header install, BUT I have no loss in PSI with the header addition, and I have probably the most Freeflowing exhaust on a s/c tC that I know of.

And I just dont understand how a Belt Driven S/C needs BackPressure to help boost...

DouBLeJ16

That's exactly what I was thinking.

lundy

237.6WHP 9PSI 91OCTANE 250WHP 9PSI 98 OCTANE. DYNO PROVEN, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

zer0

I know headers on a 'Roots' type blower, will lower the boost. My girls tiburon lost 2psi with addition of headers.

As far as the TRD Centrifugal type supercharger, I have yet to see proof that headers are bad...

zer0

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=104196

I stand corrected...

Nick06tC

So this other guy hit 224.1 HP. So he is only 13.5 HP shy of the UNICHIP package. I would hope a custom tune would add moe than 13.5 hp for $1000.
And considering the original poster claims the Header makes you lose power. I would say that if OutCrnrU were to take off his header and exhaust he would have more power than the Unichip setup. thats if you believe like the OP does that outcrnru is losing power with his bolt ons.
So that means the Unichip adds no power.

As you can see I dont believe that to be true. But with Lundy's reasoning on this topic, his claims dont add up.

Lundy 9PSI+ Unichip=237.6
OtCrnrU 8PSI+ AW Header+s pipe+ Exhaust=224.1

Hmmmm something doesnt add up here. (yes I know there is altitude but we dont know either of their exact conditions of the dyno so we must assume them to be equal)

Imagine if outcrnru had a Unichip. I think Lundy should put his AW header back on.

ForceFedRacing

First I would like to say hello to all the Tc owners here and tell everyone how nice it is to be a part of the Scion community! Next I just wanted to clear somethings up that have been misunderstood or not explained completely. First Justin is a customer of ours that has really experienced some great results with his TRD Supercharger kit and a few other minor mods. I think he was hoping to show everyone here what good can be found by tuning the TRD kit and hopefully help others to get the most out of their S.C.'d Tc's also. The reason the TRD kit sometimes loses some boost , and therefore power , from putting on an aftermarket header is because TRD produced the kit to work in all 50 states as you all know. The hardest state is of course California with its every increasingly stringent emission standards. Toyota as a company requires that any Supercharger kit or Turbo kit be C.A.R.B. legal to be sold as a factory forced induction upgrade. I know this because I have spoken with them about carrying our FFR turbo kit as an option that could be financed into the purchase price of a Tc. Also this is the case with every smog-legal centrifugal kit made. 350Z owners experienced this same problem when ATI came out with their kit a while back and the popular thing was to remove the cats with the purchase of new headers. Thats why companies lie STillen produced their headers to work with the ATI supercharger kit and their own STillen SC kit. But what this means for the TRD Superchargers for the TC is that since they are designed to work with the factory header and more importantly catyltic converter they will see a good deal less backpressure when a aftermarket header is put on and a person doesnt at least replace the cat with a hi-flo one. Thats all that you need to do if you have a header! No big deal right?

The other thing we want people to understand is something that unless your professionaly ASE certified for factory ECU's you may not fully understand just as I wouldnt probably understand fully how things work at your job. What Im talking about is stand-alone EMS's. They are designed to only work within its defined parameters which is good for a race car since you want complete control over the tune at all times. Thats why if you've ever worked with an NHRA team or been in the pits youll see the engineer for the team making even small adjustments between runs after he plays back the data log from the stand alone. That way he can even more effectively tune the car for the different issues the car is experiencing at each different race track. This is something we went over when I went to AEM's tuner orientation class. If a person lives in an area where climate , temp. , barometric pressure all change quickly the AEM will experience drivability issues. Is it something a person can live with? Most of the time yes! Were car guys , well put up with some issues here and there to get a great tune and max power. I am not saying AEM's are bad , I am just saying the same thing as AEM themselves , its not meant to be completely problem fee for daily driven cars. I even use the AEM on my pre obd 2 94 Supra w/ a GT42R. Its perfect because of how extensive my mods are , theres literally nothing stock left on the car and the fact I race my Supra often. Problem is on OBD II cars its illegal to use since it removes the stock ECU. You cannot pass smog because of that fact and it can even land you a hefty fine. Not to mention that theres no code retrieval with the AEM so if theres a problem it will usually require professional attention. Who really wants to go through all that with their daily driver? I have even caught problems with my OBD I Supra trying to smog it and thats allowed on OBD I cars here!

Anyhow if you would like to check out a system thats smog legal , allows code retrieval , 100% accurate tuning and it has impressed alot of shops that have been building and tuning high Hp imports for over a decade or longer then look at this link:

http://unichip.us/about_unichip.asp

I will be happy to answer any questions anyone might have! Thanks for your time.

PghtC

dude...

um...listening.

zer0

You make good points, but have there been any dynos of the Unichip/Header combo yet, until then its going to be a debate.

Is there anybody with numbers like 220-228 whp with stock header? Im curious to see.

garyc_01

if any1 wants 2 wait until like fall season i mite let u know hahaha!!!! gettin my sc somewhere during summer time im waitin for draxas headers!!!! and if a tc sc with eng. mods wouldnt it help if u replace ur flywheel and clutch 2 free up few more whp? mayb? sorry 2 jack the thread

i also understand what ffr stating about having the stock exhaust to work with the sc and unichip. but i see a flawness in this which is if the unichip is installed with to work with the stock ecu and sc. then u should be able to get more hp without the stock exhuast man. because its gettin retuned again? im not try start any problems with ffr, if any1 has anything say if im rite or wrong lemme know

lundy

OutCrnrU=INTERCOOLED
lundy=NOT INTERCOOLED

and still 13.5 more whp and not to mention 28 ft. lbs of tq. it does say intercooled right?

Nick06tC

[quote="zer0"]Yeah your deffinetly right. And there should be. The ZPI pulley gained 21 WHP @ 9psi. Add that to a 195 run and it puts you at 216 WHP.....so how is this guy running 224.1 WHP at 8PSI? the header/exhaust combo had to have given some HP (and something makes me think any Piggyback system tuned could give a 20 WHP increase in power).

Thats my huge debate here. I am not debating the product. I am sure it works.
I am debating minor facts that add up to a huge problem. The original poster claims that he had the AW header and by removing it and placing the original header back on, he gained power. And it sounds like forcefed is backing up that claim with their thing about the header design for the supercharger and all. If the companys main selling point is, the unichip with no mods has alot more power than a car without unichip and mods....then they are totally wrong. And there are dyno sheets to prove that. 13.5 HP is not worth a $1000 in my book. Especially considering it kills the reason I went supercharged. Am I saying I wouldnt buy this product? NO I AM NOT.
I really like what they have done. They just need to get a story straight. If an aftermarket hurts power so bad, they need to explain why a setup with this huge power hurter is making near the power that their expensive setup is making.

Add to this one of their selling points is it makes it legal. Well thats great, but something else makes me think that someone spending close to $4000 on a supper charger, then another $1000 on the UNICHIP setup, plus make warranty work a hassle; isnt going to keep their car 100% legal. Look at all the things people do to their cars that makes it illegal. Do you really think an ECU (something a cop wont be looking for) that is marketed as being legal is going to be a selling point?

My deal:
All 3 of their selling points have flaws in them:
1. People do make more power with a Alpha Works Header/spipe/exhaust, than without.(the dyno above shows it, unless a ZPI pulley gives 31WHP)
2. How many people on here have something that is illegal on their car?
3. The car above comes very close to that as the UNICHIP (imagine if he was getting that 9PSI???)

zer0

That dyno was Pre-FMIC. Keep this thread on track, its very informative and juicy.

Nick06tC

Wow you just killed another claim of yours. You said that an aftermarket header kills the boost. Well so does an intercooler with as much piping that it takes to intercool a supercharger.
He is boosting 8psi. So you mean to tell me with all these parts he has that kill his boost...hes still only losing 1 PSI?

So I guess we could say that the Header takes .5 PSI and the intercooler takes .5 psi.
One of your selling points on the stock header was it increased the spooling of the charger, and keep the boost higher. .5psi could be something as minor as a bad gauge or looking at the needle from an angle.

So does an aftermarket header kill boost and HP or not?