Facts About The Supercharger
03-08-2006, 02:27 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by HighlanderMac
Dang I wish I still lived in PA or NJ.. lol.. I woulda loved to get in on this one.
03-08-2006, 02:29 AM
#103
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Originally Posted by Scion-ce
Originally Posted by HighlanderMac
Dang I wish I still lived in PA or NJ.. lol.. I woulda loved to get in on this one.
Hahahahahahaha... So sorry.. lol...
Unfortunately I work alot, and dont have anytime this weekend, maybe sometime next week during Spring Break.
03-08-2006, 02:34 AM
#105
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Originally Posted by kytc
Hey highlander, are you running a cat on your exhaust setup?
03-08-2006, 02:46 AM
#107
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Honestly I havent, aside from not having traction.. lol, but I DO know that I need a stronger clutch here soon. We will see how she dynos.. hope to be over 230 now, and over 200ftlbs.. but who knows
03-08-2006, 04:15 AM
#109
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alright ill do a quote since i have a very nice book in front of me handy...
from the author 'maximum boost', Corky Bell's 'Supercharged':
"exhaust gas back pressure is a significant restriction to airflow through an engine/supercharger system. It therefore becomes nearly as important to get the hot exhaust out as to get the fresh charge in, It also happens to be a whole lot easier. Some lingering notions still exist that an engine must have back pressure from the exhaust or the valves will burn. This has never been true. Show me a race car with exhaust gas back pressure and I'll show you a looser.
Exhaust restrictions offer a novel twist in supercharged systems: the greater the restriction the greater the boost- at least as read on a guage in the intake manifold. IMAGINE the restriction with all the intake valves closed and with the supercharger still pumping. We'd have a whopping amount of boost BUT, alas no power. Decreasing the restriction may produce the perception of lost power (from reduced boost), but keep in mind that the supercharger will pump what it's sized for. The more easily the air gets through the system, the more airflow will result, and therefore more power, even if the boost is less.
...a proper header is as valuable to the supercharged engine as it is to its atmospheric cousin, or more so, since it is asked to flow more air...one can almost always benifit by replacing the header with a higher flow unit."
just beating what you guys already said into the ground, and trying to put some information on the table.
from the author 'maximum boost', Corky Bell's 'Supercharged':
"exhaust gas back pressure is a significant restriction to airflow through an engine/supercharger system. It therefore becomes nearly as important to get the hot exhaust out as to get the fresh charge in, It also happens to be a whole lot easier. Some lingering notions still exist that an engine must have back pressure from the exhaust or the valves will burn. This has never been true. Show me a race car with exhaust gas back pressure and I'll show you a looser.
Exhaust restrictions offer a novel twist in supercharged systems: the greater the restriction the greater the boost- at least as read on a guage in the intake manifold. IMAGINE the restriction with all the intake valves closed and with the supercharger still pumping. We'd have a whopping amount of boost BUT, alas no power. Decreasing the restriction may produce the perception of lost power (from reduced boost), but keep in mind that the supercharger will pump what it's sized for. The more easily the air gets through the system, the more airflow will result, and therefore more power, even if the boost is less.
...a proper header is as valuable to the supercharged engine as it is to its atmospheric cousin, or more so, since it is asked to flow more air...one can almost always benifit by replacing the header with a higher flow unit."
just beating what you guys already said into the ground, and trying to put some information on the table.
03-08-2006, 09:05 AM
#110
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Reno,Nevada
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Originally Posted by desertheat
I agree to a point after thinking the whole thing over and trying to decide the level of insanity this post has brought. There is a give and a take to backpressure on a sc like the vortech. Just to make things clear, the vortech sc DOES NOT NEED BACKPRESSURE TO OPERATE *lol*! Since you have little boost until rpm's rise, usually in the 1.5-2 psi range then the engine is acting like a n/a engine. With very little to no backpressure bottom end will suck donkey nuggets. With more backpressure you will get better bottom end. But the catch is you will LOOSE top end up once airflow increased at X psi. You must find the perfect balance. Once you hit 4-5+ psi the flow in the exhaust increases to the point that a header / high flow cat is needed to reap the benifits of the boost you are producing. Since this type of sc likes to play in the upper RPM anyways and you only run into the uppermost rpm when racing, that is were you want to focus your power. A header with 2.5" exhaust will be perfect. You do NOT want to equal the backpressure of the stock system period if you want good dyno numbers or drag strip results as your time at either will be spent in the upper RPM only. Do I reccomend some backpressure in the system? Yes. Leaving one stock cat in the system is plenty of backpressure to give you decent drivability in the lower rpm and enough flow in the upper to win races. End of story.
03-08-2006, 09:25 AM
#111
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Originally Posted by ForceFedRacing
Originally Posted by desertheat
I agree to a point after thinking the whole thing over and trying to decide the level of insanity this post has brought. There is a give and a take to backpressure on a sc like the vortech. Just to make things clear, the vortech sc DOES NOT NEED BACKPRESSURE TO OPERATE *lol*! Since you have little boost until rpm's rise, usually in the 1.5-2 psi range then the engine is acting like a n/a engine. With very little to no backpressure bottom end will suck donkey nuggets. With more backpressure you will get better bottom end. But the catch is you will LOOSE top end up once airflow increased at X psi. You must find the perfect balance. Once you hit 4-5+ psi the flow in the exhaust increases to the point that a header / high flow cat is needed to reap the benifits of the boost you are producing. Since this type of sc likes to play in the upper RPM anyways and you only run into the uppermost rpm when racing, that is were you want to focus your power. A header with 2.5" exhaust will be perfect. You do NOT want to equal the backpressure of the stock system period if you want good dyno numbers or drag strip results as your time at either will be spent in the upper RPM only. Do I reccomend some backpressure in the system? Yes. Leaving one stock cat in the system is plenty of backpressure to give you decent drivability in the lower rpm and enough flow in the upper to win races. End of story.
03-08-2006, 10:01 AM
#112
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Originally Posted by terra_tC
Exhaust restrictions offer a novel twist in supercharged systems: the greater the restriction the greater the boost- at least as read on a guage in the intake manifold. Imagine the restriction with all the intake valves closed and with the supercharger still pumping. We'd have a whopping amount of boost BUT, alas no power. Decreasing the restriction may produce the perception of lost power (from reduced boost), but keep in mind that the supercharger will pump what it's sized for. The more easily the air gets through the system, the more airflow will result, and therefore more power, even if the boost is less.
...a proper header is as valuable to the supercharged engine as it is to its atmospheric cousin, or more so, since it is asked to flow more air...one can almost always benifit by replacing the header with a higher flow unit."
just beating what you guys already said into the ground, and trying to put some information on the table.
...a proper header is as valuable to the supercharged engine as it is to its atmospheric cousin, or more so, since it is asked to flow more air...one can almost always benifit by replacing the header with a higher flow unit."
just beating what you guys already said into the ground, and trying to put some information on the table.
03-08-2006, 10:09 AM
#113
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non biased? Why would we be biased? We dont make superchargers! Were also not children here trying to stomp our feet and prove a point. Were professionals trying to help people appreciate something that we see regularly that could benefit them. If you want call Vortech as some of the guys did that have called our shop this week. Some people unbelievably enough didnt even believe them! That made me think Im not out to change everyones minds with the testing this weekend , just trying to put some numbers down that will help those who are mature and open minded.
03-08-2006, 10:56 AM
#114
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its pretty well known that you boost less with a more open exhaust with that type of FI setup. However, that doesnt necessarilly mean you will make less power.
This topic got rehashed ad infinitum over on the nt.com boards. Its not as simple as you make it sound.
This topic got rehashed ad infinitum over on the nt.com boards. Its not as simple as you make it sound.
03-08-2006, 12:20 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by ForceFedRacing
non biased? Why would we be biased? We dont make superchargers! Were also not children here trying to stomp our feet and prove a point. Were professionals trying to help people appreciate something that we see regularly that could benefit them. If you want call Vortech as some of the guys did that have called our shop this week. Some people unbelievably enough didnt even believe them! That made me think Im not out to change everyones minds with the testing this weekend , just trying to put some numbers down that will help those who are mature and open minded.
03-08-2006, 01:01 PM
#116
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Originally Posted by Simplyscion
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Simplyscion
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Originally Posted by Simplyscion
lets put it this way...the way I sit right now with my supercharger, I will walk on stage 0's all day long...I dont care who is driving the car, I will beat them time after time. On another note, the way my car sits right now, I cant beat stock Evo's or Sti's but the turbonetics kit will. I think by the end of this week I will be able to hang with them, and when I get my clutch and flywheel in next week, I really will be able to hang with them if not beat them by a car or so.
I will eat your S/C with a NA tC
....heehee..Seriously though, I will be boosted before the April show here. I will be up for a simple game of poker. I'll see your "S/C walking over a Stage 0 any day"....And I'll raise you "my g/f will eat you in the 1/4 mile". I won't even drive, I'll let her do the driving. That way, it will be fair.
When your boosted in April, come up to Englishtown Jersey, Ill even paypal you the money for gas on the way up cause I already proved that I can beat a stage 0, you have yet to prove that you can beat a supercharger. Im gettin real tired of this bullsh!t, you arent even boosted yet so how can you even speak for christs sake...I dont care about your "rollercoaster rides" in ZPI vehicles cause thats not your car. Like I said, the offer still stands, I pay for your gas on the way up here, you bring all your buddies so they can witness this and we put an end to all this.
Be ready to paypal me then... I will meet you half way, to save on some gas. Now don't go backin out when I get there, cause I'm not waisting all that time just for you to go coward on me. And as far as I'm concern you have yet to prove you can be a Stage 0....oh wait, I almost forgot, you raced an Un-tuned, Non-supporting mod, Stage 0, so I guess that counts.. 
03-08-2006, 01:18 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
I'm concern you have yet to prove you can be a Stage 0....oh wait, I almost forgot, you raced an Un-tuned, Non-supporting mod, Stage 0, so I guess that counts..
. I must be missing something here. Sorry to ____ on your Cheerios, but the last time I checked. The Stage 0 doesn't come with anything to tune it. You are supposed to bolt this thing to the car and hope that the car doesen't blow the hell up . It doesn't even come with injectors . So for your info, he raced a Stage 0 ZPI powered TC and beat the kid. Now the only way to tune that kit is to get an Emange or better system and a set of injectors. But then that wouldn't be a stage 0 kit anymore now would it 
. I would love to see you make a fool out of yourself trying to race a supercharged TC with your car. It would be entertaining to say the least 
]
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03-08-2006, 01:40 PM
#119
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Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Be ready to paypal me then... I will meet you half way, to save on some gas. Now don't go backin out when I get there, cause I'm not waisting all that time just for you to go coward on me. And as far as I'm concern you have yet to prove you can be a Stage 0....oh wait, I almost forgot, you raced an Un-tuned, Non-supporting mod, Stage 0, so I guess that counts..