chintastictc

the ultimate can do partial throttle ...cant it?...

rhythmnsmoke

*cough*

m6ar2cel6oTC

Yup

chintastictc

if this is true then why does everyone prefer the fic lol after this theres no way i would choose an fic over an ultimate...im buyin one aas soon as someon has one for sale

brett561tc

after getting the aem ems i can't suggest either the f/ic or the ultimate. there is NO worry involved with the ems. you get complete control of your tc, and no check engine light. once you get it tuned, you can completely forget its there. take it from someone who has been through this headache before. save yourself the time and money and do it right the first time. odds are if you keep the project you will end up with a standalone anyway. dont even bother with anything else.

rangerryda

iTrader: (1)

The EMS is definitely a powerful tool but it's not for everyone. I like still having the ECU because after some testing, if you tune correctly with fuel trims and factory timing pull monitoring, the car runs smooth as silk for my daily driver and hauls a$$ when I put my foot in it! For a track car or serious HP goals, EMS is the only way but for DD under 300 whp, no reason for a standalone.

The only reason I can think to go to an F/IC is the availability of tuners near you and what they are qualified on. Otherwise the Ultimate is a no brainer.

rhythmnsmoke

You don't "visually" have a CEL, but if you were to scan the car through the OBDII port, you will have codes come back. This is a problem for people who live in States that frequently have emissions testing every year (not like FL where you live). So, yeah no doubt if it was a perfect world....we would all be running Standalones no questions. But indeed though, you are throwing CEL's, just not via the dash since the Standalone handles them.

So, for anyone esle who needs to pass emissions, they will need a piggy back to either stay with, or if they go standalone, will have to keep a piggy as a back up for the emissions test. Which is what I plan to do once I go with the Haltech. Emissions time, I'll just throw on my Ultimate since I have a PnP harness and it will be an easy swap.

chintastictc

i want to pass inspection!!! ems wont let me

brett561tc

just because your car is a dd and making under 300whp doesn't mean that you should use an inferior tool. it being a dd is all the more reason for you to get a standalone. my car is a dd because of the ems. when i had a blue or f/ic my car was always broke down.

brett561tc

plug and play. just take it out when you get inspected. god that must suck having to go through emissions. no wonder fl has the most 400whp+ tc's.

ecko04

Perhaps I misunderstood Toan @ PTUNING when we spoke after he tuned my car with the F/IC but I believe he said you CANNOT partial throttle tune with the Ultimate, or at least it was easier to do with the F/IC in comparison. He stated each has its positive and negatives as I previously mentioned, starting issues with the F/IC which do not happen with the Ultimate.

With the Ultimate, yes you can remove the speed limiter, which is useless, your car, with stock internals, is already high in RPMs at the factory preset speed limiter, you don't have much room after. Yes, you can increase the RPMs, is it wise to do so with stock cams and internals, no it isn't.

2-step is good if you're going to drag, etc.

But optimally for the DD goes to the F/IC, it gives the tuner features that you'll actually use every day.

If time attack or drag are going to be your weapon of choice, go with the Ultimate.

Definitely if you're looking to build it later down the road go with the Ultimate and seriously consider a standalone, mainly the PTUNING Haltech unit they'll be coming out with soon.

chintastictc

lol...probly

rhythmnsmoke

No that won't work either. ECU is still throwing the codes. Only way to remove them is to clear, or drive the car for a long time on the stock ECU (that's a little paranoid with 300-400whp on a stock computer, even if you don't go into boost). And some Emissions stations if you clear the codes right before you get there, your ECU will still be in diagnostic mode. The Emissions computer will pick up on this, and the Service tech will tell you to go drive your car and come back as your ECU is not reading properly and in Diag mode so they can't tell if it's in bad standing or good standing. Again, that's a lot of Emissions stations, not all. I've cleared my codes back when I had the Blue and drove about 15min to the emissions station and passed. But that was before I realized my anti-fouler was installed backwards (only code I ever had). I installed it right, and with the Blue or the Ultimate, I'm code free.

brett561tc

damn eco-*****.

rhythmnsmoke

Not correct. You ever take a look at your RPM's when you hit speed cut at 127mph? Your barely sitting at 5k rpms in 5th gear. Remove the speed cut and don't even touch the rpms and the car will do 140-150mph. It's already known that the stock head will handle 6800-7000 rpms. So, not taboo to raise it a little.

Secondly, there is a map in the Ultimate that has a series of Cells. These cells are only labeled as "On" or "off". This cell is specifically for having the Ultimate Override the ECU cells that are considered "closed loop" (part throttle is closed loop). Cells that are "off" are closed loop. Switching it to "On" will have the Ultimate force those Cells into Open Loop thus taking control of that rpm/fuel mix.

And the whole taboo about part throttle boosting is a myth to begin with. I've said it a long time ago when people where always talking about it. I've part throttle boosted on the E-Blue for 3 years. Yes it shows my A/F ratio in the 14's since the factory Ecu was handling it. But think about how much boost your making when you part throttle. You are making 1-3 psi Tops. People turbo their tC's on the factory ECU and run 6psi! So, why so nervous about some 1-3 psi burst your doing just to pass a car. And making that your whole reason for picking a unit over another? Just don't see the whole "part throttle" thing as a necessity or even a feature that's a big Plus.

I have the Pressure sensor waiting to install when I get my PTuning kit. But that's just another feature to have a tune based on Boost and not RPMs/Throttle position.



PS....PTuning again, ran the Ultimate for the entire 2008 season on their TA car. Ross has to use a lot of throttle modulation (i.e. part throttle boost), to keep good traction. You might want to ask Toan again to clarify, but I don't think he told you it couldn't Part Throttle tune. Maybe a little bit harder to do, but not that it Can't do it.

rhythmnsmoke

Got Dang Tree Huggers I tell ya!

chintastictc

i have a blue with the pressure sensor..and at 5 psi and partial throttle my afr reads 10.5....and its pretty smooth

rhythmnsmoke

Yep that's the whole purpose of the pressure sensor. To tune based on Boost pressure. 1, 2, 3,.....15. Don't matter what the throttle position is, the tune will be whatever you tell it to be at that given boost pressure (this is a solution to Part throttle boosting as is).

ecko04

I think that's what I said is it not?

Either you cannot or at least it was harder to accomplish than the F/IC which is why some tuners don't prefer it and call it 'e-mangle' but all the other functions of the F/IC are a PITA to tune in comparison to the Ultimate.

Once again, i'll reiterate, removing the speed cut is pointless without work done to the motor to get one to those speeds quickly, the 1/4 mile is over, slips are printed and the next race has started and ended way before anyone will reach that speed with a bolt on turbo kit and the race has been won or lost long before then unless someone is street racing and some car wants to take you to the top of its speed limiter but then again, that isn't a race.

The highest most stock cars are regulated to is 158 anyway and if its regulated that high it is going to put a whomping on a 270hp tC.

Increasing the RPMs when the stock motor is no longer making power, why, it doesn't make any sense.

Like I said, all those features are nice when work is going to be done to the motor but just on stock internals and a bolt-on kit, it is pointless.

Bone stock and plan on staying that way with the turbo --> F/IC
Anything else --> Ultimate or standalone

Seems like a matter of preference. I think we had this discussion before Travis

rhythmnsmoke

You can tune part throttle. And your not doing the tuning so, whether it's harder or not isn't going to effect you. Price of tuning is not going to vary between the two....so, get Ultimate and take it to PTuning....LOL.


Again...your idea of removing the speed cut is pointless without motor work....again...Not True. Might I remind you yet again, that PTuning used the Ultimate for the entire 2008 season. Just a little catching up for you....their motor was 100% bone stock in 2008 and running 14lbs of boost + Meth injection with an Ultimate. They took home the championship on the Ultimate. Then they put on the Ultimate on their Built motor that made 500+whp on their dyno. They also ran the Ultimate for a good portion of this 2009 seaons before working out the details of the Haltech.

How much boost are you running? You would have to be running less than 6 PSI to think that 127mph doesn't come fast when the car is boosted. 8 + PSI on a turbo tC brings 127mph "quickly" as you listed as a criteria. Have you taken your car to speed cut? That's my question. And if you don't think it comes fast, then your not running enough boost....

Again, I my position is....If your just going to the grocery store a little faster, than either is great. But they Separate from each other when your talking about racing.

Hence the 2step, speed cut removal, rpm increase ability. If all you ever do is drive to the grocery store and part throttle boost and that's what you get your kicks off of...then don't spend the extra money on Ultimate as it is a little more expensive than the F/IC.

But....I race so...I'm biased in that aspect and I'm not talking 1/4 mile. Talking Time Attack....5th gear WOT on the straights = need more than 127mph.

Speaking on the 1/4 mile....again, Ultimate has 2step launch and the ability to raise rpms. Both of these features are beneficial to the 1/4 mile by a long shot over an F/IC.

And street racing is racing....just the illegal kind.

As mentioned....the separation is when it comes to racing.