GT35 vs GT35R..Worth it?
#1
GT35 vs GT35R..Worth it?
I'm trying to decide whether the extra money is worth it?
GT35 non ball bearing
GT35R is ball bearing..
If you could get a Garret GT35 for 450 brand new at a shop
or a GT35R for 1250?
A local shop ordered the GT35 for someone they left a deposit and never picked it up now they just wanna sell it...
I'm trying to get around 450-500hp..
Opinions.
__________________
GT35 non ball bearing
GT35R is ball bearing..
If you could get a Garret GT35 for 450 brand new at a shop
or a GT35R for 1250?
A local shop ordered the GT35 for someone they left a deposit and never picked it up now they just wanna sell it...
I'm trying to get around 450-500hp..
Opinions.
__________________
Last edited by MR_LUV; 09-08-2021 at 10:47 AM.
#2
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http://www.suprastore.com/balbearturdo.html
There is always a discussion in regards to ball-bearing vs. non-ball bearing turbochargers and the performance and reliability aspects of one to another. This question was presented to Rob Smith master-tuner and owner of RPS Automotive in California.
QUESTION TO ROB SMITH: "Rob, everyone is asking about ball-bearing turbo's and do they spool quicker than non-ball bearing turbo's. Should I pay the extra $425 which is the difference between a non-ball bearing RPS turbo kit and a ball-bearing unit?"
ANSWER: "All right! This question has been asked many times and I have yet to answer, so here goes. The main factor that determine when a turbo will start to spool hard is the A/R of the exhaust housing. On a side note, the wieght of the exhuast wheel is a factor, i.e. a ceramic wheel. Unfortunately ceramic wheels are very, very expensive and are not readily available in the sizes we need.
Everyone needs to remember that a turbo is basically just like a kid's pin wheel that you can hold out a car window and make spin. If you increase the velocity of the car (i.e. the exhaust going into the turbo) the wheel will spin faster. If you put your hand behind the pinwheel, the wheel will slow down because air cannot flow though it. Let's talk about a Supra engine running at 3,000 RPM, full throttle. The engine will produce a constant amount of exhaust gases as long as the RPM is held constant. So the only way to spin our "pinwheel" faster is to increase the velocity of the air. The only way to increase the velocity of the air is to use a smaller A/R ratio. The problem with too small of an A/R ratio is that it will choke off air flow at higher Rpm's. This is why matching the turbocharger's size, CFM, exhaust back pressure vs. intake pressure, and A/R ratios is so important.
The ball bearing option was developed to improve the reliability of high output turbos. When high boost is used, there are great stresses on the center housing bearings to keep everything in place. The ball bearing option is a great way to handle these added stresses and improve reliability.
As a side effect of using the ball bearing option, drag cars saw immediate improvements in et's. The reason for this is the ball bearing improved the rate of acceleration of the exhaust wheel, thus boost. Remember, the A/R ratio determines when the boost will start, a freeing spinning wheel (less friction with the ball bearing) will make the boost rise at a faster rate.
It's that simple. The A/R ratio determines when, the friction in the bearings affects how fast."
QUESTION TO ROB SMITH: "Rob, everyone is asking about ball-bearing turbo's and do they spool quicker than non-ball bearing turbo's. Should I pay the extra $425 which is the difference between a non-ball bearing RPS turbo kit and a ball-bearing unit?"
ANSWER: "All right! This question has been asked many times and I have yet to answer, so here goes. The main factor that determine when a turbo will start to spool hard is the A/R of the exhaust housing. On a side note, the wieght of the exhuast wheel is a factor, i.e. a ceramic wheel. Unfortunately ceramic wheels are very, very expensive and are not readily available in the sizes we need.
Everyone needs to remember that a turbo is basically just like a kid's pin wheel that you can hold out a car window and make spin. If you increase the velocity of the car (i.e. the exhaust going into the turbo) the wheel will spin faster. If you put your hand behind the pinwheel, the wheel will slow down because air cannot flow though it. Let's talk about a Supra engine running at 3,000 RPM, full throttle. The engine will produce a constant amount of exhaust gases as long as the RPM is held constant. So the only way to spin our "pinwheel" faster is to increase the velocity of the air. The only way to increase the velocity of the air is to use a smaller A/R ratio. The problem with too small of an A/R ratio is that it will choke off air flow at higher Rpm's. This is why matching the turbocharger's size, CFM, exhaust back pressure vs. intake pressure, and A/R ratios is so important.
The ball bearing option was developed to improve the reliability of high output turbos. When high boost is used, there are great stresses on the center housing bearings to keep everything in place. The ball bearing option is a great way to handle these added stresses and improve reliability.
As a side effect of using the ball bearing option, drag cars saw immediate improvements in et's. The reason for this is the ball bearing improved the rate of acceleration of the exhaust wheel, thus boost. Remember, the A/R ratio determines when the boost will start, a freeing spinning wheel (less friction with the ball bearing) will make the boost rise at a faster rate.
It's that simple. The A/R ratio determines when, the friction in the bearings affects how fast."
#3
Good link Jon...
but its allot simpler than that...
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Get the specs of both turbos and decide from there.
Then you can refer to the link posted above
Regards-
Todd
but its allot simpler than that...
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Get the specs of both turbos and decide from there.
Then you can refer to the link posted above
Regards-
Todd
#4
Originally Posted by TurboToyotas
Good link Jon...
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Regards-
Todd
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Regards-
Todd
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...1_731413_1.htm
#5
Originally Posted by paul_dezod
Originally Posted by TurboToyotas
Good link Jon...
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Regards-
Todd
there is no such thing as a NON ball bearing GT35R. So whatever shop is telling you they will sell you a brand new non ball bearing GT35R is lying to you.
There are some turbos that are close to a GT35R as far as specs go that are non ball bearing.
Regards-
Todd
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...1_731413_1.htm
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ison_sheet.htm
Pito
#6
Yeah I tell people that the wheels are totally different on the R series. They are far larger than the non R series. For example the 35R wheels are bigger than the 37 non ball bearing. The compressor wheels on the R series are also different in terms of design and efficiency so all this makes a difference. I concur that there is no such thing as a non ball bearing 35R. May want to ask about the specs on that turbo to see what size it is as well as the AR ratios on both the hot side and cold side.
#7
Originally Posted by Mecanica_Pito
The GT35 and GT35R are very different turbos. The compressor wheel is close to 10mm smaller on the GT35 than it is on the GT35R!!
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ison_sheet.htm
Pito
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ison_sheet.htm
Pito
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