Ace83

iTrader: (6)

^^ Most auto tc i've seen is dynoed less than 270 hp on same spec turbo kit that makes 290 hp up on a manual tc.. its seems that the OP is trying to get the easiest power adders without building or motor jobs yet thus we many said meth injector.. you are right about headwork will help a lot but its almost like telling the OP to just build the motor and up the boost.. its a good discussion though with some good infos on it

TurboToyotas

says who? people with bad tunes?

Plus 15psi on a 60-1 is allot different than 15psi on a T3/T4

As this community grows and goes through the learning curve, more of you will learn (through those who did it the hard way) that if you would spend most of your money on the tuning and fuel management side of the equation you will get allot better return on your investment.

Everyone wants boost but not many want to take the time and spend the money on the most important part......TUNING.

Education is key.


Ways to make power for your setup....

you spent the money on the tranny, might as well take the time and more money on the tuning side of things.....you'd be surprised by what you can get by turning up the boost a few psi and a few more hours on the dyno.....higher psi with a safe tune.

Water/meth as mentioned.....

Headwork and cams are always a good idea.....but they are costly.

If you go the headwork route and if you are going to keep your log style manifold setup...see if the boys over at Dezod will make you a log stlye mani with larger diameter piping....yes its a log but one that can handle more airflow will help....its still a restriction with good headwork and cams but one with larger internal volume will help. But otherwise a change in manifold design would be beneficial. Plus you'd have a better power band for an auto setup.

But being able to rev higher is probably your less costly option. New valvesprings and retainers would be ideal....stock cams can make power over 8k

Higher rpms=longer powerband = more power

Regards-

Todd

JL56TC

there is no way in hell you can squeeze 400whp on stock internals..... the only way you might get close is with water injection, 3" exahust, beter head gasket and race gas. then you might get close aka 370 at the most.. look at the P tuning car... there one of the highest hp car without water injection

JL56TC

plus 15lbs on a 16g is way less than 16lbs on a t3/t4

purevision01

Slow down captain, I never said he would make 400 whp, I said the internals would fail around 400 hp... Agreed he would need either a shorter exhaust route or larger diameter exhaust to accomidate that kind of power, but the head gasket should hold for a reasonable amount of time is the 2azfe uses an mls headgasket from the factory. Besides that I would not recommend looking at one car's setup and say thats the end all for all tcs... I doubt that there are less then 2% of the scions built are built and tuned to perfection. Meaning someone took their car knew the power they wanted to make, and subsequently bought all the corresponding turbo components put it on the car and had it dyno tested... And during the dyno tune, knock counts were observed and recorded at every rpm point, load point, every fuel point, while observing timing and loads... and using this method until engine failure.

Im not saying he will make 400 whp, but I am sayin that with on valve springs, a 60-1 with a .63 or better turbine, and a good tune, on 16 psi and pump gas, we achieved 380 whp on a manual tc... so a similar setup on his car should net 340 or so to the wheels.

Meth injection will make this safer if his car to run at 16 psi... However if his car is tuned to achieve 340 hp and has a knock count of <5, whats the point... The stock tune sees as much as a 10 count...

Im not saying that every car will make this power, but using these components and using the same tune, every car using this setup should atleast come close...

B_Real45

Very interesting..

Purevision - what would you rely on the stock knock sensor for tuning purposes? And if not, how do you install your own to tune with?

Also, on this particular car you mentioned with a 60-1 at 16psi and 380whp, which engine management did you guys use?

purevision01

We use the ultimate with a 3 bar map sensor... The cars all have the stock maf located between the throttle body and the bov... They are tuned using the maf in vac and the map in boost.

B_Real45

Yeah.. similar to the F/IC users who use the MAF clamp at whatever max voltage is when transitioning from vac to boost.


But what about the knock sensor question?

purevision01

We tune using the knock sensor bcuz the is ultimately what causes engine failure, not the air fuel ratio even tho there is usually a correlation. MSD makes an aftermarket knock sensor kit which is a standalone unit with an in cabin monitor with visual and audible signals.

B_Real45

Hehe.. sorry I guess I didn't word my post very well. I know what a knock sensor is for and how it's beneficial in tuning.

I was wondering how much you, in particular, trust the OEM knock sensor.

Thanks for the info on the MSD unit, I've seen it before but never gave it much thought.. Where did you mount the MSD knock sensor?

purevision01

msd part # 8964

B_Real45

hah.. thanks.. I meant WHERE do you put the actual sensor? We can't just place it where the OEM sensor is right (assuming that's even the same size/thread)? I think we'd produce a CEL if we removed the stock knock sensor - and the ECU would act funny wouldn't it?

paul_dezod

Werd. I have been preaching that for the past 3 years! Spend the $$ on an excellent tuner. You will not regret it.

purevision01

We usually only mount one near the stock knock sensor... We do not always employ this technique because not everyone wants to go thru this kind of hassle or spend this kind of money for something that doesnt physically add hp... This kind of mod, most people look at it the same way people look at a big brake kit... No one wants to spend that kind of money on something they would seldom get a chance to fully experience... You can tune without using the knock sensor, but the way I see it, what is the point of tuning to a particular a/f ration. The whole point to tuning to the ideal a/f ration is to reduce engine knock under high cylinder pressures and loads.

purevision01

As for the stock knock sensor... I would trust the read out pretty heavily, more then just tuning to a/f ratios bcuz you can still get knock even at ideal ratios... Every car is different and dependin on where the o2 sensor is mounted, it can display a different reading.

I will always believe tuning to knock count is the safest and most efficient way to tune a car

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

interesting, this knock sensor you are using is so much better than stock or its just the alarm features that has that makes you wanna use it.. I look at my knocks too on my engine management but i was told before that tuning through knocks isnt very accurate since it could mimic other engine noises and vibrations the motor/drivetrain makes especially when stuff like motor mounts are used..

purevision01

This is tru, However, we prefer to use engine dampiners, which by the way we are in the midst of creating an adjustable rebound version of. People have their ideas of the proper way to tune, mine is to tune always keeping an eye on knock. Others prefer to only tune to a/f ratio. But in my past bad experiences, what do you tell someone when they have obvious detenation damage to their engine however they show an acceptable a/f ratio?

When you tune to avoid as much knock as possible, everyone has a warm and fuzzy feeling once the car is taken off the dyno.

Mr_Meaty

how do you monitor the stock knock sensor with the f/IC?

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

^^ does it have the feature to do that? i dont know of a piggyback that can do that but i dont know bout the fic..

purevision01

Most if not all piggybacks lack this function, however you can you a scan tool with a real time knock sensor read out to monitor it.