xoutxforxblood

Thanks for the reguards man I just took everyones comments the wrong way I suppose. If I turbo it I just want to go the right way. I'll definately look into dezod. Thanks for the help.

chad_buckwalter

Hey no problem bud anywho welcome to the F/I Forum section

scikotictc232

If I were you .. never mind caught myself. I was going to say look into the kits and manufactures that offer EL turbo manifolds they are nicer than log. reduce back preasure witch means you will make more power in the long run on any boost level. since your auto and probably just want to boost any kit is really good. they all have highs and lows but the two I am highly satisfied with right now are the ptuning and TURBO TOYOTAS . I personally have tt stuff and I love the quality. I have not heard from anyone that has cracked a mani either like some of the logs. all depends man. you plan on swaping transmissions down the road do either or if not. .. they will all work fine for you.

chad_buckwalter

Do you have a beef with Dezod or something? Nothing against TT honestly ive never dealt with them before so... I just know Paul real well and have been working closely with dezod. Just wondering thats all.

scikotictc232

I never said anything bad about them. I was talking bout log manifolds in general. and speaking about the difference's of both. I dont have any beef with dezod at all. I am actually planning a set of wheels from them soon. Just have to wait a while. their are more kits that offer log style manifolds. Just that I appreciate the extra step to make a bad ___ kit that much more bad ___. I know what I have learned from my own studies to what other people with good experience have told me. thats it.

vettereddie

If you want the facts on log manifolds, go to the source. Honeywell / Garrett has excellent write-ups of all things turbo. They discuss the log vs. EL manifold here:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...tech102.html#c

Funny thing about it, they praise the cast log manifolds as being more durable than the welded tube steel. They do list the EL as having a performance advantage in some applications.

Let's be honest though, with an A/T he won't be able to hold more than 250-285 HP without a $3k upgrade to the trans, and at those power levels the log will be more than sufficient. if ye were trying to plus 350+, the advantages of EL would start to really matter.

I've dealt w/ PTuning and Dezod, and have faith in both their products as long as you select it for the proper application. The PTuning kit doesn't bolt up to the stock exhaust, but coupled with their PTuning 3" exhaust system, you'll see significant gains over the Dezod. Of course, you'll pay more for it too. TT seems to have a great product from people I've talked to, but Todd runs a small shop and has a fixed production output, so be prepared to wait up to a few months for him to build your system.

My feeling is to select the turbo for your application. If a log mani and a smaller turbo gets the job done, then anything over that is wasted $$.

paul_dezod

Yes I feel a log manifold would be ideal for an auto and unless you are looking into pumping thousands of dollars into the transmission to hold the power, all your doing is tooting your own horn. The trans is the weakest link and our log will work fine for all the power that trans will produce and then some.

Furthermore, unless your running in excess of 15-20 PSI, there is no real superb gains from a EL manifold. In fact, a log will pressurized sooner and provide better overall throttle response in boost less than that. Let's face the facts, according to my calculations, only 15% of this population is running enough boost to see the benefits from a tubular mani with built motors. That is a generous estimate too. This market is still in it's infantile stages.

scikotictc232

Not trying to start a ____ing contest but were do the 15% come from ? I know you are trying to sell your kit and all but I dont understand were 15% comes from. I have personally seen advantages of switching from a log manifold to a EL manifold. My brother and cousin both drive neons, and they are into them like we are into scions, My brothers car is a 1995 Neon with a 2.4L PT cruiser motor with SRT-4 pistons rods and crank and a 2.0L head from Indy cylinder heads. Hewas unning a turbo manifold from Hahns racecraft I believe and at 10 pounds put down 267 HP and 258 TQ. Cousin owns a 96 ACR neon with a 2.4L from the SRT -4 running 309 HP and 274 TQ, Cousins car is running a tubular manifold that he had custom made from a shop In texas and he sold it to my brother so he can pay to get his STi out of the subaru dealership due to a blown transmission. My brother swaped them out over a weekend and picked up close to 15 whp and 17 FT LBs more over his previous set up. Although it is leaning out a bit now with a new tune he should be able to get better numbers. We are actually supposed to go back and get it dynoed here in the next few weeks.

So Paul can you explain to me the 15% ? and how you got that ? just curious as I am always into learning more about our cars. Cause what I understand backpreasure plays a big big part when turboing and your motors health. So since Log manifolds create more backpreasure thus making the cylinder head get hotter , wouldnt that put the motor of being harmed ? Were as a tubular manifold creates less back preasure and less reverse flow if designed correctly wouldnt it be safer for our motors ? You said that the logs spool faster also but couldnt that be changed with the turbo you run ? Just curious please educate me if I am wrong though. That is just what I have learned from books and websites. What is the advantage of your guys Tubular manifold over your own log ? ?

chad_buckwalter

Paul wouldnt you say that your kits are closer to a Bolt-on than the others now by saying bolt-on I mean you dont have to add an exhaust system (even tho its going to happen) or cut bumper supports, modify the kit in anyway. yada yada and so forth? The only reason I speak so highly of you guys and your products is look how much Ive been through, and remember the times on the phone? and all the friendly customer support (and just plain hey whats up) phone calls, and lets not forget the excellent advice and knowledge! Thanks Paul you guys at Dezod have really made my power goals come true

scikotictc232

I have had the exact same experience with Todd and Turbotoyotas. I have been on the phone plenty with him texting back and fourth while he is at his other job or with the familly on his off days. I appreciate everything he has ever done for me and thats why I recommend him to everyone. I have not purchased from Todd but I know someone that used to run their kit back back in the day. So i know what their kit looks like and what it does. Ptuning is highly recommended also. It does not mean I have a problem with dezod cause even with this particualr car It would work fine with . I on the other hand am hoping to go further than just slapping a turbo on a stock motor and enjoying it.

stevejohns29

TT is a good company but like Paul said.. your really not going to benefit from the tubular any more than the log style manifold. . ^^ Chad has a fully built motor making more than 500 whp and he is running a log style manifold with a 60 trim turbo. . The log manifold makes the turbo spool up faster than tubular one would. Theres not need to spend the extra money on the tubular manifold unless your just looking to waste your money. .. and as for the back-pressure issue, without the back pressure, you turbo will take foreverrrr to spool

ElevationTC

You guys could sit here for many many hours and have this debate.. Instead do this..

Figure out what your hp goal is..

a EL manifold is going to run more $$

They are all great companys.. Like i said before call them. speak to them and see what company you feel offers you the best support and product for the price.

To be honest ive worked with p tunning and dezod.. both awsome people!

xoutxforxblood

I want to run about 230 to 250hp safetly on my A/T tc. I do not wan to have to worry about a blown tranny. I'm only home in the summer to drive it for what 4 or 5 months max. It's still new with only 14000 miles on it. I don't care if I'm not the fastest tc in my area or to have 500whp bc in the end you're still driving a tc. I love my car but I'm not dropping 10k+ on the car, the tranny and my motor to hit 500whp when I can just s/c a c5 vette or a 350z or countless numbers of cars for cheaper and hit those numbers. I just want something fun to drive while I'm home in the summer. I'm more than likely sticking with dezod or ptuning and getting a tanabe exhaust or the ptuning turbo back. I didn't mean to cause a problem starting this thread by it's obvious both of you have good points behind the company you love and support. In the end I have to figure it out.

Hats off to you guys though. Thanks alot.

ElevationTC

In the end if your looking for those low of numbers.. Get a dezod kit..

But on a side note.. bring on the 350z or the c5! I love to see the owners faces as i pass them

scikotictc232

you actually dont have to wait months for a tt kit todd has a simple kit in stock ready to go.

paul_dezod

Ok. I am going to attempt to explain my stance on this without creating a ____ing match here because I can see one happening. People are already unzipped and had a few bottles of water....................

The 15% figure is an estimate based off of how many 100s of people I speak to on a daily basis that have turbo Scions or want to turbo them, but are not satisfied with the amount of power a stock block can sufficiently provide to them. They are interested in keeping up with the Jones or want a HARDCORE car that can crush 90%of what's on the road. Without a shadow of a doubt, anything over that power level is a $10K investment between the kit, tuning, motor build, etc. Some Scion owners hear that and some go "ok", but most cringle and settle around 300-350whp.

Next point that I need to address would be the tubular benefit versus the log. Simply put, how much boost was the SRT-4 running you spoke about? From the factory, it runs in excess of 14 PSI! Again, that is merely supporting my claim of what I said about not seeing the benefits unless you are running serious boost. I did a LOT of benchmarking and comparisons with Hondas over the years, in particular the SOHC D17. We used to turbo a lot of those back in the day. We had one customer dyno his D17 with a log we made, he ran 192whp @ 8 PSI, and switched to a tubular we made, same boost level, retuned a tad, same turbo, car made 182whp.

We did another D17, kid ran a log manifold to 16 PSI, made 290-something whp, then after switched to our tubular, ran the same boost and only netted a gain of 9-11whp if I recall correctly. When we saw the most gains was on a built motor, the fella ran 425whp, switched to our tubular, ran the same boost and netted almost 40whp more. Mind you that was at almost 28 PSI.

Last note would be the address of this statement:

To simplify this in as much layman's terms and without going into a 5 pag debate, the backpressure notion is true: A log pressurizes much quicker than a tubular. However, with that being said, the equipment on the car should be suited for what the car is going to do, and the equipment (turbo manifold in particular) is not going to dictate the safety of the motor. The tuning of the engine management, and the overall stability of the tune and fuel in the conditions in which the car is run will dictate ALL of the safety, performance and longevity of the engine in which the turbo is installed on. Please understand those vital premises. There is a lot of poorly communicated data on the interweb and plenty of youngsters out there take it as gospel without knowing the entire picture from all angles.

Lastly, on the note of reversion, it is all into the design of the manifold itself. We always have reversion tabs built-into our manifolds to prevent as much of it happening.

chad_buckwalter

Paul the info above ^^^ is why you are god LOL

paul_dezod

Thank you sir!

chad_buckwalter

Anytime Bud!

tcchris38

There is really no need to spend all of the extra money on a EL mani or any other expensive upgrades to a turbo kit. Its different with an auto you have a limit and when you start messing with that line without the trans being properly upgraded the trans usally dosent last very long.
Save the extra money and get a tranny cooler and valvebody upgrade then you will be safe at 250WHP no matter what.
Since you have that set mark for an auto any turbo kit will achive that HP mark with no problem at all! So extras like 3' turbo back exhaust is not needed.