killerxromances

98% of all the dyno runs on this site with the s/c also have other existing mods, i have only seen one with a stock 2az/tC with a s/c and that dyno'd right at 188whp. Also, i have a friend that had bought the s/c prior to other mods, and when he dyno'd just the s/c he dyno'd 186.7whp. I have never seen a bone stock tC dyno above 190whp without other mods. If you can provide information that states otherwise (more than one case), then i can believe you.

Also, Timmy as i have told you before. You want my reasons for the Si read past pages of this thread, you keep asking me this and i have already gone over it more than once in the past. Deal with it. About the gearing, you also shared the Si was slightly geared more aggressivly 2-5th. Yes, very slightly however combine this with all top end power, vtec to keep it within powerband, and other things envolved with this process and it does overall play a bigger advantage other than just ratio's alone.

Also, some of you guys keep attacking what i say, remember that kungpaosamuraiii agrees with me. Well, from the stand point of an Si being more performance compared to the tC. While there are a few things we don't see eye to eye on, he overall seems to view my points the same. And with that said, he is pretty doe hard on the tC side. Theres a reason why hes agreeing with me, theres also others that agree with me as well that drive tCs.

With that said, get over yourselves.

Scion-ce

Actually, the first dyno for the supercharger that was posted on SL was 192whp. The only mod that was on the car other thatn that was the TRD axle-back, which we all know makes no power. So a stock tC with the TRD blower has dynoed up to 192whp.

Don't try and tell me the TRD exhaust gave it that 5-6 extra hp because we will all raise the BS flag. I don't care much for numbers. I have already raced an 06 si with my s/c tC (no other mods). I won't BS and say that I killed him, but I will say that I won by at least a car length. The driver of the Si was a friend of a friend. Don't know him that well, but I can tell you that he was no novice driver. Truth is, I don't consider myself that great of a driver. I still won. So how is that for real world application. People get too caught up in numbers.

rhythmnsmoke

How about you provide information that states that they DON'T dyno more than 190whp, then we can believe you otherwise. You have yet to provide actuall evidence/facts/graphs/vids/documentation...etc. Your only evidence is "Well, my friend did this and some people I know did that", without any kinda proof, it's hard to put weight on anything you are saying (especially on a board section for Scion tC's). Whereas everything that anyone else says that disagrees with you, back it up with some sort of factual media.

killerxromances

TRD axle back alone gives 2-4hp gain. The exhaust with s/c would probably give at most 3-5whp gain being the fact you can't declare gains based on each mod, they work together all at once. With that said, you take even just 3whp away from the 192 and it puts it at 189whp. So, your point was what again?

And i appear to be the only one NOT looking at numbers.

rhythmnsmoke; The only thing i have said that can be included in your "need to back up with proof" statement is a s/c tC time compared to the 06' Si. Which, has already been proven with a major magizine. You guys don't like that, so you guys find every excuse possible as to why the tC lost. Its not my fault you guys can't believe it.

Also Scion-ce, i'd really like to see you beat an 06' Si by a car length. 1/4 Times are almost identical, at very most you would have beaten the Si by half a car length, and vise versa for the Si if both were equal drivers. So to say that you aren't BSing is either, in itself bs or you were a slightly better driver. And this is not coming from someone just going on and on, this is coming from actual facts.

I might also point out, i saw somewhere of a guy with an 06' Si that did two runs down 1/4. It was one of the honda forums i believe, or maybe cardomain. Earlier this week he did some runs, his Si is stock and did 15.09 and 15.13. With that said, exactly.

killerxromances

heres some dyno 06' Si results, i'll try to find more since i know most of you will call bs and find ways to disprove as always.

BreakTheStatic

And OutCrnrU ran a 14.66 with minor bolt ons. His car is also a lot heavier than a regular tC due to his full roll cage setup for autoX. There isn't any reason to question scion-ce's credibility.

killerxromances

Having a hard time finding dyno sheets, but here are a few other dyno numbers:

whp: 193.0
wtq: 145.6

whp: 189.4
wtq: 142.7

whp: 187.1
wtq: 147.7

Thats all i can find right now.

Scion-ce

Can you show me where the TRD axle-back gained 2-4hp? I used to have one, and I can tell you from a non-biased perspective, it yields NO power. Its just a muffler. That is besides the point.

I am definitely not BS'ing about beating the 06 Si. I launched better than he did. Simple as that. I have no reason to lie about it. Calling my claim BS is pure f@ggotry.

But lets look at it this way. Assuming the 06 Si and the s/c tC are equal(which they aren't), with a 100 dollar pulley you will gain 21whp (dyno proven). And that was only ZPIs 9lb pulley. NST sells a 9.5lb pulley for 90 dollars. 9.5psi will ALWAYS be > 9psi.

Show me how you gain 21whp+ on the 06 Si with a Ben Franklin.

killerxromances

Yeah, and my box runs low 15's. Minor bolt ons as in i/h/e? Lets say i/h/e, most common dyno runs are around 150-155whp. Lets just say for kicks and giggles 160whp. 160whp, 3,100lbs+ car (with driver and roll cage) running mid 14s? Right, most i/h/e tCs run anywhere from 15.4ish-15.7ish. And your magical friend has more weight, roughly same power as these other ones and can pull off virtually a full second faster than these?

You made my day.

Scion-ce

Ummmmm Killer? Before you start laughin, maybe you need to realize that OutCrnrU also has the TRD supercharger. Those numbers are real man. Sorry to burst your bubble. Jokes on you.

killerxromances

You are also comparing a $100 supercharger mod to a $100 bone stock n/a motor. You can't compare it like that at all, it makes no sense. You guys are already having to boost your motor to just be even with a stock Si, but thats not good enough huh? You have to push it further go the extra mile just to beat a bone stock Si. Spare me.

You want to talk about it like that, then compare that $100 mod to a boosted 06' Si vs. a boosted tC. Otherwise, forget you even said that.

Also, a friend of mine dyno'd his tC with i/h/trd axle and everything together showed a 5whp gain total adding the trd. So, i would assume it gives around 2-4hp. You are trying to debate between your 0whp gain and my 1-1.5whp gain? Wow man, impressive.

I'm not trying to be a jerk to anyone, but you are trying to debate with me about stuff that is completely useless and pretty much common sense.

You might as well top it off and try to disprove my proof of the Si dyno runs. And incase you can't read that dyno run its as follow:

hp: 209.3
tq: 154.2

whp: 197.9
wtq: 148.6

Yes this is stock numbers, and below it i provided other numbers of other people's dynos without sheets. This is the only sheet i have found so far.

killerxromances

Then that makes more sense, he probably has exhaust and something else as well. Wow, jokes on me..Got me.

killerxromances

Wheres the dyno bashing people? Theres two dyno runs of an Si giving more whp than a s/c tC gives, and another two giving exactly what a s/c tC gives. And as far as wtq being 60wtq less than a s/c tC, show me a dyno run of the s/c tC (just s/c) giving 205wtq+. If it does give that much, wheel spin is definitely going to hurt your times majory. But from what i've seen, its not.

hotbox05

outcrnu gets whooped by n/a rsx type s. so that's not sdaying much for him.

Scion-ce

You are making no sense Killer.

First of all I can compare whatever I want. And the joke is on you, because you were laughin at someone and didn't have the facts straight. Thats called ignorance.

I wasn't sayin you need a 100 dollar mod for a s/c tc to beat an 06 si. I've already done it.

I wasn't debating 0whp vs. 1-2whp. You were. I was saying the diff is negligable. 192whp was with just the trd blower. Lets go by your figures though. lets say the s/c tC dynos at 190whp with no other mods. I mean the stock tC costs 3k less and has more tq at the wheels than the si has at the crank. impressive indeed

Those dynos you posted. I couldn't help but see that those were flywheel numbers. I really don't see what your point is arguing which is better. I have already beaten the Si on the road, where it really counts.

Scion-ce

you say comparing the si and the s/c tc is pointless

well I say comparing the si and the stock tc is pointless

for 3k more i would hope it outperforms the stock tC.

I guess we can look at it this way.

Someone gives you $22,000
Someone gives me $22,000

you buy a Si and put 2k worth of mods

I buy a stock tC and add 5k worth of mods

Take a guess who will have the faster car


I think it makes more sense to compare cars that comparable in price.

killerxromances

First of all, we have already talked about you beating a stock Si and it can't be done without him not being as good of a driver as you with you being stock or up to just a s/c. Second of all, its not called ignorance its called jumping to conclusions based on information given. Big difference.

killerxromances

another dyno run i found without dyno sheet:

Stock Si:

186.9whp
146wtq

Scion-ce

What are you basing this on? dyno numbers? Weren't you the one saying you don't get caught up in numbers? Don't tell me it can't be done, because I has been done. You are saying I only won because he was a bad driver. You are full of it. You have nothing to base your statement on other than dyno numbers. Numbers mean nothing. Take it to the pavement. Thats where you'll find reall answers. Damn dyno queens

Scion-ce

Ok there you go. Even if we went by your s/c tC numbers, the s/c tC and si have equal whp and there is a 40wtq difference. The LSD and 6th gear will NEVER make up for that diff