killerxromances

Dude, i've already said this numerous times. A few (three to be exact including two magizines) have covered the SI in a total of 6-7 runs all of which were low 15's, exactly the same as the s/c tC.

I might also add, before you bring up that 14.66 outcrnu run, hotbox told me he was in his club and the last run he did was 15.3...How do you explain that? I trust hotbox over you anyday, being he has no reason to lie about it and neither do i. The reason why i say you would, is because your dying to prove me wrong and say the tC is so much faster and so much better than the Si when it isn't. And incase you are wondering, i was talking to darren on aim if you don't believe me that he said that i could bring him in here to tell you himself. He even said he gets smoked by rsx-s's and the rsx-s is not that much faster than the 06' Si. It is faster, but not that much. Almost another equal car to the Si.

BreakTheStatic

Being that this thread is discussing supercharged tCs, I thought it seemed obvious that my reference was to a car that had the trd s/c on it. His additional mods included an alphawerks header, catback exhaust, and an umnitza intake. He now has an upgraded pulley, but the 14.66 was achieved with only i/h/e (like I said, that was done with a full roll cage which adds considerable weight. If you ask me, that's pretty respectable, being that the mag couldn't even break 15 seconds with the TRD blower. I'd love to see the 60ft times from that test...

Scion-ce

Dude, I don't give two ***** who darren is nor do I need you to bring him on here. I'm not pressed. How am I dying to prove you wrong? You must have me mistaken me for the other cats on this thread. I merely said I beat an Si by a car length. Did I ever say the s/c tC was SOOOOO much faster then the SI? If a car length is soooo much faster than I apologize for your confusion. Did I come on here sayin i smoked an Si like it was standing still? Did I saw I won by 4 car lengths? NOPE. I said I won by a slim margin. So relax.

As mentioned earlier, you can say the si is faster than an NA tC all you want. I don't care. This is a s/c tC thread, not NA tC. Of course the Si should outperform a NA tC. It costs 3K more. Its dumb to compare cars that have diff costs.

You sayin the Si is faster than an NA tC is no different than me sayin a base WRX is faster than an 06 Si. Of course it is. It cost 3k more, just like the Si cost 3k more than the tC. Whats your point?

killerxromances

You are full of it. i/h/e on a tC does not equal mid 14's, and if you read my post above hotbox had told me his last run was 15.3.

killerxromances

My point is a s/c tC is equal to a 06' Si, isn't that pretty obvious? I never said anything about a n/a tC, of course the Si is faster than a n/a tC.

And no, a car length isn't much at all but with two even drivers it wouldn't even be that far spread out. It would be closer than that, and i am willing to bet if you guys switched cars and you ran against him in the Si you would beat him by roughly a car length.

killerxromances

I might also add, even if you did beat the Si by a car length.

We are comparing a boosted tC to a stock 06' Si. This proves absolutely nothing in terms of how much better the tC is as far as performance. If anything, it disproves that. Because as i've said before, it takes mild boost to just keep up with a stock Si. Wow, congrats. You put the same amount of money in the Si and you will be faster, hell, just put i/h/e in the Si and it would be faster. In other words, you tC guys are spending close to $4,000 (if you get it installed by dealership) just to keep up with a stock Si, you put only $1,000 in the Si and its already faster.

killerxromances

^ Not making fun of the tC at all, but what i am saying is the tC is not in the same class as the Si.

rhythmnsmoke

The point is this...

if buying the SI, you would have already PUT a 3-4k dollars extra into a car, because you bought a more expensive car.


Correction, it was a tie, not "the tC lost".

The dyno charts you posted were "Flywheel" horsepower. We are talking about power to the wheels. Yeah, I'm sure the car only lost 12 horsepower from the flywheel to the wheels...DAMN, Honda must have invented the greatest drivetrain of any other vehicle known to man, and installed it in a Civic SI. I wonder what other cars out there that has achieved only a 12 hp loss when putting it to the ground.

According to Car&Driver, a BONE STOCKtC

Standing 1/4-mile: 15.7 sec @ 88 mph

Plan and simple "Driver differences". Can't base your facts off of a few non-professional drivers, and say that all tC's with I/H/E run that slow. You are either faster than the next man or Your Not.

Last time I check, when you ask someone what their 1/4 time is, you go by their BEST RECORDED TIME, not their LAST run. If your best time is 14.6, then that's what you run in the 1/4.


The last thing I would like to say is this. PLEASE! PLEASE! stop trying to say because of like a total of 2 people who happen to have dyno or 1/4 times that this automatically means that this is the way the car performs and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that someone else could yeild a faster result. You put to much weight on like a couple of sources, and come to a conclusion that everyone either drives like this and this is what they get. Dude seriously, You are either faster than the other guy OR your NOT. It's Black and White. This whole "Well, if the drivers were equal", or "Maybe you should switch drivers and see". That is a bunch of HogWash! You bring what you race. I be damned if I'm going to let some wannabe Vtec (but actually driving a DX model half the time) ricer wants to trade cars to see if in fact I'm the better driver. That is about the most Bull$!#@ excuse I've ever heard. You either WIN or You LOOSE, Take it like a man, and go put some more money into your car to make it faster. But I'm liable to slap you if you start whinning like a little girl and start making excuses ast to why you lost.

If the guy in the SI didn't feel that he was a good enough driver to beat the S/C tC, then he shouldn't be racing in the first place (because it's a drivers race). In Scion-ce's case, the SI felt he would win, to which he lost. The only thing good to come out of F&F is that.....


What's in "aarontrini85" tC

If he can make it down the 1/4 with only an I/E/Short Shifter and under drive pully in 15.2 secs, then obviously faster times can be reached with a S/C.

We have been going back in forth on what we want to put on our custom license plate. After reading this crap for the past 4 or 5 so pages, I think we should go with "VTEC8TR", just so I can ____ off the Honda boys....heeheeee...

ignitionr34

there is actually another guy w/ just a modified stock airbox and removed rear seats who ran a 15.19...

rhythmnsmoke

Not the same class, but not in a better class either.

killerxromances

21hp drivetrain loss? If you look at a lot of flywheel k20z3 dynos, you will notice honda actually down played the z3. Most results have been in the 210hp range, which if you look at the dyno results you will see it made 209hp. There are also several accounts of the crank hp being more than 197hp as sae rated. I've seen crank rates anywhere from 197-215hp. Most wheel ratings i've seen is mid 180's all the way to low 190's...some high 190's but i doubt that.

You figure 210hp, and just say 188whp, thats a 22hp drivetrain loss.

Its in a better class as far as performance goes, i hate to break it to you but as i have said numerous times, its more of a performance car than the tC is from the factory.

Also, you say you already spent $3,000 more than the tC..Obviously its a more expensive car, but so what. Price to price doesn't matter, its a more expensive car with more performance. IMO better performance platform than the tC, from experience and how the k20z3 is designed, truthfully it is a better performance base compared to the 2az.

Also, if your best time is 14.6, you usually would average high 14's. Theres a big difference between mid 14's and 15.3 1/4. Mid 14's you cannot do with just i/h/e, plain and simple. With a s/c, that would mean you would be in low 14's at least which is possible, but not with i/h/e and supercharge. That combo you would be in the mid 14's, not low 14's. And as we all know, the faster your time the harder it is to shave off time. You should know that.


Also, you don't go by best 1/4 times to begin with. You go by an average, best 1/4 times is like worst 1/4 times for someone. They are flukes, not common. Someone can hit 12.1 1/4 one time, and never hit it again and constantly hit 12.5-12.7's. You don't just go by 12.1 because they managed to hit it one time. Anybody can hit a great, perfect run once. But if you are not doing it all the time that really doesn't prove all that much now does it.

Everyone makes excuses as to why you should do ___ mods to the tC so you can beat the Si. It proves nothing, you can take any car and out run any other car on the road with ____ mods. Price matching is pretty retarded too. You can take a xb, price match it with mods to a $25,000 car and more than likely out run it with a motor swap and a few other things. Who cares, all that proves is you spent _____ amount of cash to equal a better performing car. With that said, all of what you guys are arguing with me for proves my point that the Si performs better, and is a better performance platform than the tC from the factory.

rhythmnsmoke

MY problem, and the only problems I have had with anything you were saying is that you talk as if the SI(in terms of the 06 model) is EXPONETIALLY better than the tC. Which I think the margin is not as drastic as you try to make it seem.

The other problem is that you seem to hate on the tC a lot, and undercut it a great deal by posting misleading information based off of hersay or from what you have only experienced from a small/few select group of people.

But this is a pointless debate. As you don't see this big war debate of "my S/C tC" should out run your "06 SI". On the STREET, I'll say it again, You are either Faster than what the other guy has, or You are Not. If your S/C tC beat an 06 SI, awesome. If your ZPI boosted tC walked away from a WRX, again, another good kill.

You are faster than what the other guy was driving plain and simple.

killerxromances

^

Actually, i don't hate on the tC at all. I've said multiple times its a great car, maybe you overlooked that fact? I said it a lot in the beginning and in the middle of this thread. I respect the tC, i really do. What i don't respect, are those owners who believe the tC is so great and much better that what it is. See, some of you guys absolutely hate honda because of their owners. Not saying you are included in this, but its true. You guys put down civics, and the Si for all potential thats a given just because you see 16 year olds driving them like they are 10sec cars with a muffler and speed stickers.

Its kind of funny because a lot of the mods scion owners make fun of hondas for, for instance neon lights, i see an awful lot of those same owners that have neon lights on there car. Which i believe is a big part of the reason why some car forums hate the tC because of the owners.

Back to subject, as i have also said in the past both Si and tC have their strong points. The Si, hands down compared to the tC is a better performance car to start with than the tC. I have also said, that the tC is a great car if you are looking for a quick, comfortable fairly cheap compact to drive. While the Si is more along the lines of a rsx-s, and is a true sports compact where as the tC isn't. Its a compact yes, and yes it has potential however compared to the Si, it lacks in so much. I never start these tC vs. Si threads because to me its pointless. They are two cars in two seperate classes within the same compact world. But, people feel the need on here to hate honda and if they can't beat a honda, out comes excuses as to why.

cmndrjamesbond

Dude, you drive a box. Shut up and leave.

killerxromances

I can see you are the smart one here. Guess what color?

Who cares what i drive, the only reason you don't respect my opinion is because i don't drive the all mighty tC. If i drove a tC then you wouldn't have said half of what you have, but because i drive a box you feel you have the right to place yourself higher in the community so you tell me to shut up and leave? Impressive, and very mature.

How about looking past what i drive. See, i have noticed a trend. The tC owners that agree with me, really don't get quoted or put down hardly at all. However, i get put down completely because i say the tC isn't a better performance car than the Si. Which makes you angry and all upset. Why would it make you upset, maybe because you don't like hearing the fact your tC is beat by a civic. (Si) Which is a lousy reason.

Just because you drive a tC doesn't make you higher up in the scale than i, but it apparently does make you cocky.

BreakTheStatic

Can you read? From the start I clearly stated that I was talking about a supercharged tC. I was referring to I/H/E IN ADDITION TO to s/c setup. This thread is about s/c tCs, therefore when I am discussing mods I'm talking about things done besides the s/c, because that should be known from the start. And as I just said, he ran a 14.66 @ 96mph with these mods: supercharger (should have been inferred from the thread topic...) an umnitza intake, alphawerks header, & 2.5" catback exhaust. He did run a 15.3 but it was definitely driver error because like you said averages speak louder than best or worst times, correct? He also ran a 14.67 @ 94mph & a 14.67 @ 96mph. Those three times are almost identical (and if you average the 4 times you'll get an answer of 14.825) so his best run of 14.66 was not a fluke. If anything, the high run of 15.3 seems very out of place. Possibly a bad launch, a misshift maybe? I'm not trying to attack you at all. I like the new Si a lot, but your attitude is horrendous. I was never disrespectful to you, why the need to say that I'm full of it? Was it because I had one simple fact that refuted what you were saying? I still agree that the Si is a better base platform for OVERALL performance. All I was trying to point out was that there are a few people that are performing better with the s/c tC than what the magazine stated.

TimmyT

The focus of this thread is the s/c tC. And my personal argument is that the s/c tC IS a better performer than the civic SI. I can admit the NA Stock tC is not a better performer than a 06 Civic SI. The problem is YOU can't admit the s/c tC is a better performer than the civic SI.

AND DON'T bring up that propogandist article either. Because anyone that can do basic math can see something isn't right.

kungpaosamuraiii

So now we all agree that the Si is better from the factory.

Next up, we need to come to some agreement about the supercharged tC.


I just want to say that the Si will out handle a tC. After that, we I will say the table is evenly set because, remember, the supercharger doesn't make a tC handle better.

BreakTheStatic

If anything, it might even be harder to handle if you aren't an experienced driver...
I completely agree with your assessment

kungpaosamuraiii

Now we gotta prove that in a straightline race, with all else equal, a supercharged tC will win against an Si!

If we can't prove that than NST and ZPI better start turning out those pulleys.