InsideLine test S/C tC w/Video
01-26-2006, 04:59 PM
#241
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
Why everyone is talking about F/I is because the forum and topic of this ENTIRE thread is about the inside line evaluation of the s/c tC,you Brought up the "F/I setup is anyone's ball game" Comparison of the 2 cars, And the reason why we are even talking about the Civic SI in this thread is because of Speed magazines comparison of the Civic Si and the Supercharged tC. So the comparison makes it on topic.
Killer. You constantly assume the k20z3 is anything like the RSX-S engine and it is NOT.
You think just because the k20a1 etc has aftermarket parts the k20z3 will just share those parts.
Im not saying the z3 will not have aftermarket support, but you can not just grab an RSX aftermarket part and bolt it up to the k20z3. Because:
1. They are different engines.
2. They are different Cars. Wich means they have different dimensions. Wich means The parts just won't fit properly.
Killer. You constantly assume the k20z3 is anything like the RSX-S engine and it is NOT.
You think just because the k20a1 etc has aftermarket parts the k20z3 will just share those parts.
Im not saying the z3 will not have aftermarket support, but you can not just grab an RSX aftermarket part and bolt it up to the k20z3. Because:
1. They are different engines.
2. They are different Cars. Wich means they have different dimensions. Wich means The parts just won't fit properly.
I have said this numerous times to you, please read my posts in regardes of this.
As i have said many times, i will say this one last time. I know theres differences between the k20z1 and k20z3, i also know they are two different motors. Now for the love of scionlife, quit bringing that up because i have never stated these two motors were the same nor have i said parts for the z1 will work with the z3.
You on the other hand compared the k20z3 to a k24a2. You are trying to tell me i basically know nothing about the car i'm talking about, yet you are trying to compare these two? The z3 has more in common with the z1, k20a2 than it does the 24a2.
01-26-2006, 05:20 PM
#242
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You sir are so ignorant. If YOU know that the motors are different. Then why are you referring to performance gains of the other k series engine?
Its like me saying "Oh well the 2jz can do this.. and the 2az has a "2" in it so it can do the same thing."
And the information I have on the CIvic Si and the k20z3 engine is not by my Design, but by information provided by people who OWN 06 Civic SIs. So its not my comparison. Its thiers.
If you have anything smart to say about the comparison don't come looking here. Go talk to Civic Si Owners.
Again proving your ignorance. If you clicked on the link I provided the HEAD on the k20z3 is more related to the TSX than the RSX. Civic SI owners themselves Say this..
Its like me saying "Oh well the 2jz can do this.. and the 2az has a "2" in it so it can do the same thing."
And the information I have on the CIvic Si and the k20z3 engine is not by my Design, but by information provided by people who OWN 06 Civic SIs. So its not my comparison. Its thiers.
If you have anything smart to say about the comparison don't come looking here. Go talk to Civic Si Owners.
Again proving your ignorance. If you clicked on the link I provided the HEAD on the k20z3 is more related to the TSX than the RSX. Civic SI owners themselves Say this..
01-26-2006, 05:34 PM
#243
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
You sir are so ignorant. If YOU know that the motors are different. Then why are you referring to performance gains of the other k series engine?
Its like me saying "Oh well the 2jz can do this.. and the 2az has a "2" in it so it can do the same thing."
And the information I have on the CIvic Si and the k20z3 engine is not by my Design, but by information provided by people who OWN 06 Civic SIs. So its not my comparison. Its thiers.
If you have anything smart to say about the comparison don't come looking here. Go talk to Civic Si Owners.
Again proving your ignorance. If you clicked on the link I provided the HEAD on the k20z3 is more related to the TSX than the RSX. Civic SI owners themselves Say this..
Its like me saying "Oh well the 2jz can do this.. and the 2az has a "2" in it so it can do the same thing."
And the information I have on the CIvic Si and the k20z3 engine is not by my Design, but by information provided by people who OWN 06 Civic SIs. So its not my comparison. Its thiers.
If you have anything smart to say about the comparison don't come looking here. Go talk to Civic Si Owners.
Again proving your ignorance. If you clicked on the link I provided the HEAD on the k20z3 is more related to the TSX than the RSX. Civic SI owners themselves Say this..
01-26-2006, 05:43 PM
#244
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http://www.8thgencivic.com/honda-civ...-walk-dog.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click and learn something.
You were commenting about potential of past K series motors. and that a certain PSI of boost on (insert K series) yields blah blah blah performance.
You are again downplaying the 2az engine explaining that @ 10 psi of boost (insert K series) has XXX whp and XXX ft/lb of torque. But you don't post the numbers of a 2az @ 10 psi of boost.
If thats not what you were trying to get across than please correct me....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click and learn something.
You were commenting about potential of past K series motors. and that a certain PSI of boost on (insert K series) yields blah blah blah performance.
You are again downplaying the 2az engine explaining that @ 10 psi of boost (insert K series) has XXX whp and XXX ft/lb of torque. But you don't post the numbers of a 2az @ 10 psi of boost.
If thats not what you were trying to get across than please correct me....
01-26-2006, 06:01 PM
#245
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Originally Posted by TimmyT
http://www.8thgencivic.com/honda-civic-forum/1165-k20z3-engine-info-pics-included-56k-go-walk-dog.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click and learn something.
You were commenting about potential of past K series motors. and that a certain PSI of boost on (insert K series) yields blah blah blah performance.
You are again downplaying the 2az engine explaining that @ 10 psi of boost (insert K series) has XXX whp and XXX ft/lb of torque. But you don't post the numbers of a 2az @ 10 psi of boost.
If thats not what you were trying to get across than please correct me....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click and learn something.
You were commenting about potential of past K series motors. and that a certain PSI of boost on (insert K series) yields blah blah blah performance.
You are again downplaying the 2az engine explaining that @ 10 psi of boost (insert K series) has XXX whp and XXX ft/lb of torque. But you don't post the numbers of a 2az @ 10 psi of boost.
If thats not what you were trying to get across than please correct me....
Your link provides nothing new in my book, the only thing that it proves as you see that it shares the same head and one or two other things and you all of a sudden say its a direct connection of a k24a2. It has similarities and shares parts of other motors as well, its a unique k20 series in the sense it does share much of its parts with other motors on a wide scale. (not all k series are equal)
The k20z3 i never said was a k20z1, i just said in its design its more of a k20z1 than a k24a2. While some major parts are shared with the 24, that doesn't make up the entire motor either.
I might also point out that the k20z3 was designed to be an updated version of the k20z1. (1st rsx-s prior to k20z1)
01-26-2006, 06:09 PM
#246
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The k20z3 shares more parts with the k24, I never said it was a direct duplicate of the k24. I said it was more closely related to the k24 than the other k20s. and "I" didn't even really say it. Civic owners did and I provided a link where they said it
Regardless. The information I provided gives the civic SI's k20z3 more appeal being more related to a k24 than the other k20s.
Regardless. The information I provided gives the civic SI's k20z3 more appeal being more related to a k24 than the other k20s.
01-26-2006, 06:48 PM
#247
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Originally Posted by killerxromances
rhythmnsmoke; get your facts straight. The ZPI stage 0 does not dyno at 260whp, i've only seen one dyno but for it but it was at 230whp.
Take a gander SIR...
On the LEFT is the Supercharger Dyno and on the Right is a Stage 0 with only a FMIC as an upgraded option, to which 90% of the time, people are going to install anyway!
THESE ARE WHP #'s NOT FLYWHEEL!
I might also point out again, f/i on a n/a motor is useless without a prep-build. I don't care who just slaps it on and drives it, or what any company says you can do. (yes, i respect ZPI and others) Boosting a n/a motor requires certain mods to keep it lasting, point blank. Especially with almost a 100whp increase...Use common sense.
Just incase you cry "they just want your money", I have you know, Kenny is more of friend of mine than he is ZPI to me. I don't think he would take my money and feed me false info. bro.
Some more good stuff I found on 7thGenCivic.com for our amusement.
Progression of my K20A *including dyno graphs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hello, I'm not sure if anyone's been keeping track of my dynos ... but just a brief summary...
I typically dyno at this shop called Hookups in Upland, CA. If anyone knows Upland, they have an elevation of 900-1300 ft (depending where you are). With each power mod I added, I would dyno again ... so here goes:
Mods:
K20A
17x7.5" ssr comps (13 pounds)
215/40/17 tires (19 pounds)
Type S Injen CAI
oem DC5-R header/cat
stock DC5-R ecu
stock DC5-R full catback exhaust (2.5" new piping on the axleback)
Nextgear Intake Manifold Gasket
dyno graph here 10/22/05
I pulled peak 200 whp, 138 wtq
Added mod:
DC Sports ceramic race header
dyno graph here 11/19/05
This time I pulled peak 207 whp, 143 wtq
Added mod:
-T1R 2.5" b-pipe (stock dc5-r is 2.125")
-225/45/17 Michelin Pilot Sport 2's (4 pounds heavier each than my previous tires)
I guess I never got around to uploading this dyno graph ... but I gained about 1 peak whp and gain 4-6 whp in the midrange in some places (after vtec). Not bad for having much heavier tires to spin.
And finally, yesterday, I dyno'ed at a different shop in Irvine, CA, which is much closer to me. I didn't add any mods, but this shop is at sealevel, unlike Upland which again is 900-1300 ft. elevation.
dyno graph here 01/10/06
I pulled 212 whp, 146 wtq.
After that, we then proceeded to remove my DC5-R axleback ... and then ran again twice and got 214 whp, 148 wtq.
good stuff, eh? ... I'm running SUPER SUPER lean from 5000-6000 rpms, which is why my power has a ridiculously huge dip ... super lean as in 15.5:1 a/f.
Next mod: K-Pro.
__________________
TiMEX. Do you have one?
212 whp, 146 wtq - dynojet 01/10/06
1/4: 14.315 with a 2.422 60' (dc5r header, dc5r b-pipe) 10/29/05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hello, I'm not sure if anyone's been keeping track of my dynos ... but just a brief summary...
I typically dyno at this shop called Hookups in Upland, CA. If anyone knows Upland, they have an elevation of 900-1300 ft (depending where you are). With each power mod I added, I would dyno again ... so here goes:
Mods:
K20A
17x7.5" ssr comps (13 pounds)
215/40/17 tires (19 pounds)
Type S Injen CAI
oem DC5-R header/cat
stock DC5-R ecu
stock DC5-R full catback exhaust (2.5" new piping on the axleback)
Nextgear Intake Manifold Gasket
dyno graph here 10/22/05
I pulled peak 200 whp, 138 wtq
Added mod:
DC Sports ceramic race header
dyno graph here 11/19/05
This time I pulled peak 207 whp, 143 wtq
Added mod:
-T1R 2.5" b-pipe (stock dc5-r is 2.125")
-225/45/17 Michelin Pilot Sport 2's (4 pounds heavier each than my previous tires)
I guess I never got around to uploading this dyno graph ... but I gained about 1 peak whp and gain 4-6 whp in the midrange in some places (after vtec). Not bad for having much heavier tires to spin.
And finally, yesterday, I dyno'ed at a different shop in Irvine, CA, which is much closer to me. I didn't add any mods, but this shop is at sealevel, unlike Upland which again is 900-1300 ft. elevation.
dyno graph here 01/10/06
I pulled 212 whp, 146 wtq.
After that, we then proceeded to remove my DC5-R axleback ... and then ran again twice and got 214 whp, 148 wtq.
good stuff, eh? ... I'm running SUPER SUPER lean from 5000-6000 rpms, which is why my power has a ridiculously huge dip ... super lean as in 15.5:1 a/f.
Next mod: K-Pro.
__________________
TiMEX. Do you have one?
212 whp, 146 wtq - dynojet 01/10/06
1/4: 14.315 with a 2.422 60' (dc5r header, dc5r b-pipe) 10/29/05
The most thing I really wanted to note is that look at what had to be done to yeild a 14.3 1/4. A swapped motor, and mods on top of that, and that's what he yeilded in the 1/4.
01-26-2006, 06:49 PM
#248
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Reading later in the thread a guy asked the dude that I just "Quoted" from the site this:
To which the guy responded.
Hmm...put $9k in a Civic and barely break 200whp or put $3k into a tC (which I might add is even cheaper than a regular 06 Civic) and break 250whp on merely 6lbs.
I have a couple questions. First if you do not mind me asking how much from start to stop did you spend. Two how hard is it to smog a swapped newer car in Cali. Its just so hard to work on any thing new that I stick to older cars. But I so want to build a streetable k20 in a crx or ek/eg. Btw your ride is siiick post up more vids maybe even track runs!
To which the guy responded.
I spent probably almost $9k so far include all of my swap mods ... not including the rims.
Hmm...put $9k in a Civic and barely break 200whp or put $3k into a tC (which I might add is even cheaper than a regular 06 Civic) and break 250whp on merely 6lbs.
01-26-2006, 06:56 PM
#249
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Just a funny little story about our mutual friend who drives the Teggy with the B16a1 swapped in it. The conversation goes like this.
Me: Yeah, can't wait till this spring when we can go turbo
Teggy Guy: Did I hear you say turbo?
Me: Yeah, soon I hope. It's going to be on about 6psi's.
Teggy Guy: (Puzzled look on his face, as in "that's rather weak")...
Me: Oh, it's just to start out with. It puts down good #'s.
Teggy Guy: How much?
Me: Oh, about 250 hp 260 tq to the wheels.
Teggy Guy: (Puzzled face again, but this time more like a look of shock!) All the while taking a second glance over at the TC as it sits beautifully in the drive way.
Teggy Guy: Man, you making me second guess what I'm doing with my car then.
Me: Yeah, can't wait till this spring when we can go turbo
Teggy Guy: Did I hear you say turbo?
Me: Yeah, soon I hope. It's going to be on about 6psi's.
Teggy Guy: (Puzzled look on his face, as in "that's rather weak")...
Me: Oh, it's just to start out with. It puts down good #'s.
Teggy Guy: How much?
Me: Oh, about 250 hp 260 tq to the wheels.
Teggy Guy: (Puzzled face again, but this time more like a look of shock!) All the while taking a second glance over at the TC as it sits beautifully in the drive way.
Teggy Guy: Man, you making me second guess what I'm doing with my car then.
01-26-2006, 07:13 PM
#250
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Did some more poking around on 7thGenCivic.com and came upon a thread intitled...*Official* Turbo whp listing!
So, I thought I would take a look at the #'s some of them were putting down.
Comparing to a 2.4L 2az on STOCK internals boosting at 6psi's and pumping out:
247whp
257wtq
These are the #'s the Civic boys were putting out. Some on stock engines and some with engine work done. Pay CLOSE attention to the PSI levels in relation to the whp and wtq.
And you say DISPLACEMENT does not make all that much of a difference. Notice the Last one recorded. It took him 13.5psi to achieve what we do on 6psi! Like I said DOUBLE the psi to equal the same #'s (or close to it, seeing as how the TQ is lacking).
Prove it, where is the dyno chart and specs on the project?
I think there is a misconception, that when you see a Civic doing 12sec 1/4 miles, you think "Dang it must be putting down like 300whp". When in fact it is their LIGHT WEIGHT, not HP that alows them to get down the 1/4 fast. So, don't try to make it seem that they are fast due to some good HP numbers. If a tC goes down the 1/4 fast, you KNOW it's due to having some good hp, because WEIGHT is definitely not our strong point. We need the extra HP and TQ to get us there fast.
However, the new 06 SI is just as porky as the tC
Comparing Engines to Engines sir, I've said it once, and I'll say it again...."2.0L at 6psi will not give the same hp as 2.4L at the same psi."
So, I thought I would take a look at the #'s some of them were putting down.
Comparing to a 2.4L 2az on STOCK internals boosting at 6psi's and pumping out:
247whp
257wtq
These are the #'s the Civic boys were putting out. Some on stock engines and some with engine work done. Pay CLOSE attention to the PSI levels in relation to the whp and wtq.
Well I've seen a few members on here that say they have their motors fully built and what not and I wanted everyone to post up their set up and their numbers. this time we should sticky this one for refrence.
Hyaboosta:
Stock Internals
Garrett T3/T4 .48AR
SFP manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type S BOV
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Turbo XS dual stage BC
Spearco IC
194whp/174tq @ 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are mine:
Garrett T3/T4 57 trim .48AR
Maxrev manifold
SAFC hack with type s injectors(soon to be emanage)
HKS BOV
Tial 38mm wastegate
precision intercooler
stock internals also
178whp / 171tq @ 6psi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T3/4 Precision turbo/intercooler
Custom piping
Tial wastgate
210 whp 198tq @ 12psi
Fully done internals
Stock injectors
Return fuel system
Car is on the shop getting RSX injectors, New P&P head, fuel rail and other fuel mangement items
I'll post my new numbers when fully done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stock Internals
Garrett GT28R
HKS manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type-RS BOV
internal Wastegate
Johnnyrace FMIC
Auto Trans
169.8whp/154tq @ 7psi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
164hp/162tq @ 6psi
2001 lx
t3 (sf manifold)
MF2 extra injector controller
sf intercooler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF turbo kit
Emanage
rsx injectors
BCE built head
wiseco pistons
crower rods
ARP headstuds
greddy rs bov
profec b BC
236whp 238tq @ 15 psi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
200 HP and 196 ft-lbs of torque at 8 psi. That was with Electronic Boost Control problems so I probably made even more power than that.
Edit: I sold my kit. I'm buying a 350Z. Time for twin turbos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turbonetics t03/04b
HKS SSQ BOV
Tial Wastegate
Spearco intercooler
RevHard manifold
Haltech F5 fuel controller
stock block with ARP head studs and OEM headgasket
225whp/194tq at 10psi
197whp/176tq at 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<====*2002 Ex Sedan Automatic*
TSI Extreme kit
Garrett t25BB turbo
Stock internals
TSI BC, MAP etc
TCI auto Stage 2 transmission kit for automatics, and TCI auto torque converter
in the beginning ....
162.8whp/154tq @ 6psi
now running 12 PSI.. need to re tune and dyno will post up after thats done
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Custom Turbo Kit
245.9 whp, 207.4 tq @ 14psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garrett t3/t4e 50 trim
RC 440's
SFP Turbo Manifold
D16y8 Intake Manifold Swap
AEM Standalone Engine Management System
2.5" Stainless Downpipe
2.5" Aluminized Intercooler Piping
Full 2.5" Open Exhaust
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold
AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor
Tial 35mm Wastegate with Atmospheric Dump Tube
Dynojet tuned at 6 psi
194whp/178tq
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Same setup at 13.5 psi
247 whp 212 tq
Hyaboosta:
Stock Internals
Garrett T3/T4 .48AR
SFP manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type S BOV
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Turbo XS dual stage BC
Spearco IC
194whp/174tq @ 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are mine:
Garrett T3/T4 57 trim .48AR
Maxrev manifold
SAFC hack with type s injectors(soon to be emanage)
HKS BOV
Tial 38mm wastegate
precision intercooler
stock internals also
178whp / 171tq @ 6psi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T3/4 Precision turbo/intercooler
Custom piping
Tial wastgate
210 whp 198tq @ 12psi
Fully done internals
Stock injectors
Return fuel system
Car is on the shop getting RSX injectors, New P&P head, fuel rail and other fuel mangement items
I'll post my new numbers when fully done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stock Internals
Garrett GT28R
HKS manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type-RS BOV
internal Wastegate
Johnnyrace FMIC
Auto Trans
169.8whp/154tq @ 7psi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
164hp/162tq @ 6psi
2001 lx
t3 (sf manifold)
MF2 extra injector controller
sf intercooler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF turbo kit
Emanage
rsx injectors
BCE built head
wiseco pistons
crower rods
ARP headstuds
greddy rs bov
profec b BC
236whp 238tq @ 15 psi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
200 HP and 196 ft-lbs of torque at 8 psi. That was with Electronic Boost Control problems so I probably made even more power than that.
Edit: I sold my kit. I'm buying a 350Z. Time for twin turbos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turbonetics t03/04b
HKS SSQ BOV
Tial Wastegate
Spearco intercooler
RevHard manifold
Haltech F5 fuel controller
stock block with ARP head studs and OEM headgasket
225whp/194tq at 10psi
197whp/176tq at 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<====*2002 Ex Sedan Automatic*
TSI Extreme kit
Garrett t25BB turbo
Stock internals
TSI BC, MAP etc
TCI auto Stage 2 transmission kit for automatics, and TCI auto torque converter
in the beginning ....
162.8whp/154tq @ 6psi
now running 12 PSI.. need to re tune and dyno will post up after thats done
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Custom Turbo Kit
245.9 whp, 207.4 tq @ 14psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garrett t3/t4e 50 trim
RC 440's
SFP Turbo Manifold
D16y8 Intake Manifold Swap
AEM Standalone Engine Management System
2.5" Stainless Downpipe
2.5" Aluminized Intercooler Piping
Full 2.5" Open Exhaust
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold
AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor
Tial 35mm Wastegate with Atmospheric Dump Tube
Dynojet tuned at 6 psi
194whp/178tq
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Same setup at 13.5 psi
247 whp 212 tq
And you say DISPLACEMENT does not make all that much of a difference. Notice the Last one recorded. It took him 13.5psi to achieve what we do on 6psi! Like I said DOUBLE the psi to equal the same #'s (or close to it, seeing as how the TQ is lacking).
Originally Posted by killerxromances
I also might mention, CN (i believe thats the company) turbo for the k20z1 dyno'd at 301whp 240wtq @ 10 psi, so it would not need 20+ psi.
I think there is a misconception, that when you see a Civic doing 12sec 1/4 miles, you think "Dang it must be putting down like 300whp". When in fact it is their LIGHT WEIGHT, not HP that alows them to get down the 1/4 fast. So, don't try to make it seem that they are fast due to some good HP numbers. If a tC goes down the 1/4 fast, you KNOW it's due to having some good hp, because WEIGHT is definitely not our strong point. We need the extra HP and TQ to get us there fast.
However, the new 06 SI is just as porky as the tC
Comparing Engines to Engines sir, I've said it once, and I'll say it again...."2.0L at 6psi will not give the same hp as 2.4L at the same psi."
01-26-2006, 08:19 PM
#252
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lancaster, CA SoCal
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you know what i think about this?
this should shut everyone up
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66181727845562
this should shut everyone up
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66181727845562
01-26-2006, 08:24 PM
#253
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 143
don't bring up the k20z3's high compression because we all know thats an easy fix with a swap of lower compression pistons.
01-26-2006, 08:29 PM
#254
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Originally Posted by HawkINX4
you know what i think about this?
this should shut everyone up
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66181727845562
this should shut everyone up
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...66181727845562
That was about the funniest animal vid I've ever seen. He clearly had some issues with himself... 
01-27-2006, 01:05 PM
#255
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
Originally Posted by rhythmnsmoke
Did some more poking around on 7thGenCivic.com and came upon a thread intitled...*Official* Turbo whp listing!
So, I thought I would take a look at the #'s some of them were putting down.
Comparing to a 2.4L 2az on STOCK internals boosting at 6psi's and pumping out:
247whp
257wtq
These are the #'s the Civic boys were putting out. Some on stock engines and some with engine work done. Pay CLOSE attention to the PSI levels in relation to the whp and wtq.
And you say DISPLACEMENT does not make all that much of a difference. Notice the Last one recorded. It took him 13.5psi to achieve what we do on 6psi! Like I said DOUBLE the psi to equal the same #'s (or close to it, seeing as how the TQ is lacking).
Prove it, where is the dyno chart and specs on the project?
I think there is a misconception, that when you see a Civic doing 12sec 1/4 miles, you think "Dang it must be putting down like 300whp". When in fact it is their LIGHT WEIGHT, not HP that alows them to get down the 1/4 fast. So, don't try to make it seem that they are fast due to some good HP numbers. If a tC goes down the 1/4 fast, you KNOW it's due to having some good hp, because WEIGHT is definitely not our strong point. We need the extra HP and TQ to get us there fast.
However, the new 06 SI is just as porky as the tC
Comparing Engines to Engines sir, I've said it once, and I'll say it again...."2.0L at 6psi will not give the same hp as 2.4L at the same psi."
So, I thought I would take a look at the #'s some of them were putting down.
Comparing to a 2.4L 2az on STOCK internals boosting at 6psi's and pumping out:
247whp
257wtq
These are the #'s the Civic boys were putting out. Some on stock engines and some with engine work done. Pay CLOSE attention to the PSI levels in relation to the whp and wtq.
Well I've seen a few members on here that say they have their motors fully built and what not and I wanted everyone to post up their set up and their numbers. this time we should sticky this one for refrence.
Hyaboosta:
Stock Internals
Garrett T3/T4 .48AR
SFP manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type S BOV
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Turbo XS dual stage BC
Spearco IC
194whp/174tq @ 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are mine:
Garrett T3/T4 57 trim .48AR
Maxrev manifold
SAFC hack with type s injectors(soon to be emanage)
HKS BOV
Tial 38mm wastegate
precision intercooler
stock internals also
178whp / 171tq @ 6psi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T3/4 Precision turbo/intercooler
Custom piping
Tial wastgate
210 whp 198tq @ 12psi
Fully done internals
Stock injectors
Return fuel system
Car is on the shop getting RSX injectors, New P&P head, fuel rail and other fuel mangement items
I'll post my new numbers when fully done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stock Internals
Garrett GT28R
HKS manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type-RS BOV
internal Wastegate
Johnnyrace FMIC
Auto Trans
169.8whp/154tq @ 7psi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
164hp/162tq @ 6psi
2001 lx
t3 (sf manifold)
MF2 extra injector controller
sf intercooler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF turbo kit
Emanage
rsx injectors
BCE built head
wiseco pistons
crower rods
ARP headstuds
greddy rs bov
profec b BC
236whp 238tq @ 15 psi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
200 HP and 196 ft-lbs of torque at 8 psi. That was with Electronic Boost Control problems so I probably made even more power than that.
Edit: I sold my kit. I'm buying a 350Z. Time for twin turbos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turbonetics t03/04b
HKS SSQ BOV
Tial Wastegate
Spearco intercooler
RevHard manifold
Haltech F5 fuel controller
stock block with ARP head studs and OEM headgasket
225whp/194tq at 10psi
197whp/176tq at 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<====*2002 Ex Sedan Automatic*
TSI Extreme kit
Garrett t25BB turbo
Stock internals
TSI BC, MAP etc
TCI auto Stage 2 transmission kit for automatics, and TCI auto torque converter
in the beginning ....
162.8whp/154tq @ 6psi
now running 12 PSI.. need to re tune and dyno will post up after thats done
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Custom Turbo Kit
245.9 whp, 207.4 tq @ 14psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garrett t3/t4e 50 trim
RC 440's
SFP Turbo Manifold
D16y8 Intake Manifold Swap
AEM Standalone Engine Management System
2.5" Stainless Downpipe
2.5" Aluminized Intercooler Piping
Full 2.5" Open Exhaust
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold
AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor
Tial 35mm Wastegate with Atmospheric Dump Tube
Dynojet tuned at 6 psi
194whp/178tq
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Same setup at 13.5 psi
247 whp 212 tq
Hyaboosta:
Stock Internals
Garrett T3/T4 .48AR
SFP manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type S BOV
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Turbo XS dual stage BC
Spearco IC
194whp/174tq @ 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are mine:
Garrett T3/T4 57 trim .48AR
Maxrev manifold
SAFC hack with type s injectors(soon to be emanage)
HKS BOV
Tial 38mm wastegate
precision intercooler
stock internals also
178whp / 171tq @ 6psi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T3/4 Precision turbo/intercooler
Custom piping
Tial wastgate
210 whp 198tq @ 12psi
Fully done internals
Stock injectors
Return fuel system
Car is on the shop getting RSX injectors, New P&P head, fuel rail and other fuel mangement items
I'll post my new numbers when fully done.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stock Internals
Garrett GT28R
HKS manifold
Emanage- all harnesses
Greddy Type-RS BOV
internal Wastegate
Johnnyrace FMIC
Auto Trans
169.8whp/154tq @ 7psi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
164hp/162tq @ 6psi
2001 lx
t3 (sf manifold)
MF2 extra injector controller
sf intercooler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SF turbo kit
Emanage
rsx injectors
BCE built head
wiseco pistons
crower rods
ARP headstuds
greddy rs bov
profec b BC
236whp 238tq @ 15 psi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
200 HP and 196 ft-lbs of torque at 8 psi. That was with Electronic Boost Control problems so I probably made even more power than that.
Edit: I sold my kit. I'm buying a 350Z. Time for twin turbos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turbonetics t03/04b
HKS SSQ BOV
Tial Wastegate
Spearco intercooler
RevHard manifold
Haltech F5 fuel controller
stock block with ARP head studs and OEM headgasket
225whp/194tq at 10psi
197whp/176tq at 8psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<====*2002 Ex Sedan Automatic*
TSI Extreme kit
Garrett t25BB turbo
Stock internals
TSI BC, MAP etc
TCI auto Stage 2 transmission kit for automatics, and TCI auto torque converter
in the beginning ....
162.8whp/154tq @ 6psi
now running 12 PSI.. need to re tune and dyno will post up after thats done
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Custom Turbo Kit
245.9 whp, 207.4 tq @ 14psi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Garrett t3/t4e 50 trim
RC 440's
SFP Turbo Manifold
D16y8 Intake Manifold Swap
AEM Standalone Engine Management System
2.5" Stainless Downpipe
2.5" Aluminized Intercooler Piping
Full 2.5" Open Exhaust
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold
AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor
Tial 35mm Wastegate with Atmospheric Dump Tube
Dynojet tuned at 6 psi
194whp/178tq
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Same setup at 13.5 psi
247 whp 212 tq
And you say DISPLACEMENT does not make all that much of a difference. Notice the Last one recorded. It took him 13.5psi to achieve what we do on 6psi! Like I said DOUBLE the psi to equal the same #'s (or close to it, seeing as how the TQ is lacking).
Originally Posted by killerxromances
I also might mention, CN (i believe thats the company) turbo for the k20z1 dyno'd at 301whp 240wtq @ 10 psi, so it would not need 20+ psi.
I think there is a misconception, that when you see a Civic doing 12sec 1/4 miles, you think "Dang it must be putting down like 300whp". When in fact it is their LIGHT WEIGHT, not HP that alows them to get down the 1/4 fast. So, don't try to make it seem that they are fast due to some good HP numbers. If a tC goes down the 1/4 fast, you KNOW it's due to having some good hp, because WEIGHT is definitely not our strong point. We need the extra HP and TQ to get us there fast.
However, the new 06 SI is just as porky as the tC
Comparing Engines to Engines sir, I've said it once, and I'll say it again...."2.0L at 6psi will not give the same hp as 2.4L at the same psi."
I might also point out i know that to run 12's you don't need to put 300whp, i ran low 13's with 231whp i think i know this by now.
You are also providing great information, the only thing you have yet to mention is the fact you are giving examples of older civics with swaps, the Si already has a k20z3 in it and k20/k24/B20's are some of the most common swaps within honda motors. Actually, now re-looking at your information you really didn't list what motor these mods were on.
You can take a B16b and put $5,000 into it, and you won't see 200whp+. You take that same $5,000 and invest it, lets just say a k20a2 and you will be over 200whp pretty easily.
I'm not disproving your information at all, don't get me wrong but these sound more like mods with D series and B series if anything.
01-27-2006, 01:08 PM
#256
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
Originally Posted by cmndrjamesbond
don't bring up the k20z3's high compression because we all know thats an easy fix with a swap of lower compression pistons.
I might also point out HKS is running 12psi+ on their K20a project, over 300whp. (don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head)
01-27-2006, 01:15 PM
#257
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
I'm pretty bored with this thread, so i'm done. I've wasted enough time on this one and really have gotten no where.
Most of you have over-looked the fact i have said both cars and both motors have their ups and downs, i have given the tC credit where credit deserves. But oh well, this thread may die out or it can continue going strong but more than likely it will die out since most of you agree that the tC is better than the Si.
Oh and one more thing, i know companies like ZPI says the 2az is safe to use low psi without any other modifications. However, f/i on a n/a motor without any light or heavy build its going to wear down much faster. The 2az isn't a god motor, this would happen and does happen to any motor you just through boost on and go. What i was saying is, if you want it to last and remain as reliable, pre-build would be something i would recommend. I'm not talking about doing a fully build for 5psi, but what i am saying, its a good idea to atleast replace a few things for it. Then as you go bigger with turbos, the more you would want to do.
You can tell me i'm wrong, i really don't care but history has proven this over and over, no matter what n/a motor we are talking about.
Most of you have over-looked the fact i have said both cars and both motors have their ups and downs, i have given the tC credit where credit deserves. But oh well, this thread may die out or it can continue going strong but more than likely it will die out since most of you agree that the tC is better than the Si.
Oh and one more thing, i know companies like ZPI says the 2az is safe to use low psi without any other modifications. However, f/i on a n/a motor without any light or heavy build its going to wear down much faster. The 2az isn't a god motor, this would happen and does happen to any motor you just through boost on and go. What i was saying is, if you want it to last and remain as reliable, pre-build would be something i would recommend. I'm not talking about doing a fully build for 5psi, but what i am saying, its a good idea to atleast replace a few things for it. Then as you go bigger with turbos, the more you would want to do.
You can tell me i'm wrong, i really don't care but history has proven this over and over, no matter what n/a motor we are talking about.
01-27-2006, 01:45 PM
#258
Senior Member
Music City Scions
Scikotics
SL Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 16,747
Originally Posted by killerxromances
If i can find it again i will, it was running dead on 10psi and had 301whp on a mildly built motor.
I might also point out i know that to run 12's you don't need to put 300whp, i ran low 13's with 231whp i think i know this by now.
I might also point out i know that to run 12's you don't need to put 300whp, i ran low 13's with 231whp i think i know this by now.
You are also providing great information, the only thing you have yet to mention is the fact you are giving examples of older civics with swaps
the Si already has a k20z3 in it and k20/k24/B20's are some of the most common swaps within honda motors. Actually, now re-looking at your information you really didn't list what motor these mods were on.
You can take a B16b and put $5,000 into it, and you won't see 200whp+. You take that same $5,000 and invest it, lets just say a k20a2 and you will be over 200whp pretty easily.
I'm not disproving your information at all, don't get me wrong but these sound more like mods with D series and B series if anything.
What engine is in the older SI's?
My whole point in posting those numbers is this:
Civic + Engine Swap + Boost = double the work, double the money, double the time, and not to mention having to double the boost to see good numbers
vs
tC Stage 0 = couple of hours, small boost, no engine swap, and making fun of Civics that put all that work into their motor swap and still can't walk you.
01-27-2006, 02:18 PM
#259
Senior Member
SL Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,808
^
Okay, last comment. We aren't talking about older civics, 90% of what we are talking about is 06' Si. You wouldn't need to swap to see 300whp+. Also, other great examples of 300whp+ without swaps is the k20a2 rsx-s, k20z1 rsx-s, H22 preludes just to name some off the top of my head stuff. And lets not forget some of the integras.
Okay, last comment. We aren't talking about older civics, 90% of what we are talking about is 06' Si. You wouldn't need to swap to see 300whp+. Also, other great examples of 300whp+ without swaps is the k20a2 rsx-s, k20z1 rsx-s, H22 preludes just to name some off the top of my head stuff. And lets not forget some of the integras.
