Munch

People are as dumb as they come if they pay that much. I got mine for $20540 FLAT, and because I'm trading in the TC I don't even have to pay tax . I can't wait till the end of february when it comes in.

rhythmnsmoke

^^So, the big secret surrounding your next car was an SI? You traded your S/C tC in for an 06 Civic SI....I guess whatever floats your boat bro.

Munch

Wasn't that big of a secret since I let the cat out of the bag weeks ago. It's a better car period. So out with the old and in with the new. My new plates will read 4GTSCION Gotta love it.

hPower

Ouch, that's mean man

Munch

I've had the car for 6 months, and only loved it for 2 1/2. Not too pleased with the TC sorry guys The internals are way too weak for me. A few other things about ther car suck as well. But good luck to everybody who has one and plan on making power with it. You're gonna need it

rhythmnsmoke

^^Don't need luck to reach 300whp. Just a ZPI stage 1. Besides, I wouldn't consider an SI an upgrade of exponential proportions. If you were to have said an Evo, or an STI...then I would have been like "Way to Go man". But an SI, just not enough to give up my tC for...JMO of course. Not doggin you or anything.

Rich_Manas

same here. how is a Si way better than a tC? there's nothing in the Si exterior that would make a tC owner drool or under the hood to runaway in fear. if anything the tC looks better and in less than 2yrs has enough go fast parts to make honda envy.

Munch

Yeah but for how long before you crack every piston at the ring lands . I've seen more than one case personally . Not worth it IMO.

Stock for stock the SI owns the TC. You can say what you want. I have a TC that went from boosted back to slow as hell. The car is a pig without forced induction, and very unpredictable when you boost it as far as the internals goes. Have fun with your cars. I like the SI better and that's what I'm getting. You like you r TC, good for you. Enjoy your car. It is what you wanted and what you paid for..................Correct

Rich_Manas

yes, i agree stock for stock the Si is better performance car but the tC manual also undercuts the Si by $4k. add the S/C and few suspension mods and the performance gets closer.

do you think if you boost a K20 vs 2AZ it will be that much better. i have friends with 02 rsx-s who was either boosted or flashed and they all had their share of internal problems eventually. motors now are not as stout as motors of the past (2JZ/3SG) where you can have twice to three times the amount of power without any worries. motors like 2AZ, K20, 2ZZ are maxed out and if anyone wants to boost it "properly" they have to have beefier internals.

and i don't own a tC.

Phixeus

"i have a Civic. It makes 500 hp and 23 lb ftq."
wow it sure is loud!
"yeah, the motor is doing to go any day now!"

^^^i dont know how many times ive heard and seen that before.

schwettynuts

just get this

http://www.9secondracing.com/partnum...-show-car.html

rhythmnsmoke

Seeing as how you can get turbo pistons from ZPI, I fail to see your point.

But this dosen't need to be turned into an SI vs. tC thread.

FYI....Kenny's daily driver is on a 20g with emanage pushing 350+ to the wheels.

In stock form 0-60 SI = 7.3

tC 0-60 = 7.4

Not enough for me, JMO.

ignitionr34

i like new si's but the type s looks wayy better than it...
all in all i still love my tc but i give props for si and 200 hp engine it has and its defintely worth 20k but not 33k!!

killerxromances

Oh my god guys, we have a s/c tC vs. Si thread, search and debate there. How many debating threads do we seriously need?

FYI: As far as performance goes, the Si is a much better platform than the tC is off the lot. The tC is in no way made to be a performance car. The 2az was built pretty much from the ground up to be an economy 4cyl. (which obviously you can build the car up anyway to perform.) The Si/k20z1 was built from the ground up to perform, however also get pretty good gas milage. Its a true sports compact, completely on the other side of the spectrum is the tC.

Yes, you can build the 2az, i'm not bashing it at all. However, the k20z1 is a easier platform to work with with much more aftermarket out for it than the tC's 2az. When its all said and done, the tC still needs to step it up with aftermarket especially to even catch up to honda as far as potential goes. Even with custom built parts, most honda engines can be built and can be built safely/daily driver.

Munch

I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm glad to see someone is not stuck in the scionzone

rhythmnsmoke

In all fairness bro...You are comparing a car that's been around for 2 years vs. a car that's been around for a decade+. The Civic didn't start out with a killer suspension setup, high reving 200hp engine, etc... All I can say is if we started this good off bat, then I can't wait to see what the next tC generation will be.

You can say what you want about the K2Oz's, they still have weak a$$ TQ. Not to mention, for having an LSD and 197hp, it's only 0.1 secs faster. Not enough for me to back down to one on the street if I saw one. And no one ever mentioned anything about a S/C tC. I was talking about bone stock vs. bone stock. It's still not enough for me to trade in my tC for (putting styling aside).

PS..No one is arguing that the SI has good performance. I think everyone is just merely stating that it's going to take a more of a CAR to replace their tC. And that an SI is just isn't going to cut it. Like I said, Evo, STI, then we are talking. But if you wanted me to trade in my tC for an SI I probably would at you.

killerxromances

Exactly why tC and Si shouldn't even be compared, they are not even in the same league. Sure, same sports compact class. But i stated before, two sides of the spectrum. I don't start the tC vs Si threads, i contribute because i'm knowledgable with both honda and toyota.

With that said, if you want to say the tC vs. Si isn't a fair comparison, i agree with you. They shouldn't really be compared, but, you don't need to take that up with me. You should take that up with those who feel the tC is right there with the Si.

As for weak torque, yes, not many honda's have lots of tq. However, tq alone does not win races nor does hp. You have to find a common ground of both, match that with gearing and a few other things. Gearing helps the Si, LSD, powerband helps, and yes, vtec helps with tqless. With that said, the motors are designed to be fairly tqless. They can make up for lack of tq with other things.

Not to mention, if tq really bothered you when you start modding a honda motor, it isn't impossble to jump the tq up a bit. Everyone has heard of the hks k20a with 350whp and 289ft tq, thats a fine example of a fairly tqless motor jumping with tons of tq.

Like i said, stock for stock, Si wins hands down. Mod for mod, generally speaking honda motors respond extremely well to mods and can perform very well without major long term issues. If we were to get away from this 1/4 love scionlife has (lol), autox and road courses i feel are the Si's strong points. At least, it has been that way in the past and when i test drove an 06' Si, it felt like it would share the same concept. Honda motors can be drag queens, but their cars with right set ups do extremely well in the track environment. I believe mod for mod, Si would win hands down in autox/road course.

I could go on but i'll stop. Point is, Si is a better performing car than the tC.

rhythmnsmoke

^^Problem with the last part of you post is that NO ONE road courses their Civics. They only drag. That's the only place you see them is the drag strip.

And I wasn't saying you couldn't compare the tC to an SI. I was talking about in terms of Aftermarket support, the tC is still a baby, where as the SI has been the epitone of the import world.

But in terms of comparing car to car, a stock tC can beat every other SI that has been produced. So, I will say that it was fair to compare the two. The SI is not like a GOD over the tC. And the new SI isn't that much faster. It's going to come down to a drivers race if anything. To close of #'s to say it's SOO much superior. Again, It's not enough of a car that I would back down from it if I saw it on the street. Even though I'm stock (for the time being). I wonder if I could edge out a slight victory with just a short shifter.

By the way...If you pay 4k dollars more (And in some cases they are going for 30k+...lol), I would hope your car was better than mine, as you paid more. In fact your car had BETTER have a FAAAAARRRR superior rating than my tC to pay that much more. In terms of SI, that's not the case.


This back and forth is like comparing the XBOX 360 to the not yet released PS3. Of course the PS3 is going to be better, the 360 came out before hand, and Sony has a chance to find out what to do and what not to do before releasing the PS3, based off of studying what it's competitors are doing.

It only makes since that the next tC or whatever that comes out of Scion will be compariable if not out perform the new SI. This battle will go back in forth so long as they continue to make cars. It's called COMPETITION.

rhythmnsmoke

Now instead of coming in a SUV, that engine came in the new SI, then that would be enough. I know someone is bound to try and swap this engine into their Civic.

Simplyscion

another one of these vs. threads

how bout this...the si sucks, and so does the tC ....
I'll stick with my small block Nova for when Im import hungry