mike6789k

So I want to get a zpi stage 0, but im kinda scared about tuning the afr so my engine does run like poop after a few years... zpi claims that no tuning is needed, but is this true?

if tuning is needed? how exactly is this done on an EFI car? is a piggyback required? can I take it to a dynostore and have them tune it?

thanks

lukkytoodye

you will need a piggy back for sure if you want to tune it. I too just ordered my stage zero. If your just going to run on six pounds on stock injectors and no other upgrades, or more boost, you should be okay, now as soon as you want to up the anty(more boost or gas) you will need a piggyback system. As far as a dyno shop tunning it, our ecu's are the biggest pain in the but, i dont know of anyone that can tune it other than toyota. lol good luck, make sure you get all the gauges if your not running a piggy back, sorry this wasn't ment to be this long. lol

Joe_Dezod

Tuning should be done with any forced induction application to get the most reliable power.

Piggy backs are never required but are always reccommended. Stand-alone is the next step from there.

nester

If you wanted to tune it, you would need something like an emanage.

The only tuning you'd do with an emanage on the stage 0 is take out fuel.. We observed about 10.2:1 AFR under wide open throttle.

The only time you really need an emanage is when you get ready to turn up the boost. ;)

mike6789k

im not going to turn up boost, so i should be fine yea?

nester

Yes.

Joe_Dezod

It will work but it wont be the best way to go.

Am I the only one that thinks 10.2 is way too rich for a "good tune" for a daily driver? 11.5 is a tad too rich for a boost level that low. Why not save fuel economy and make more safe power? Plus your spark plugs will last longer.

10.2 is damn rich

toyotaracer9

my tacomas make best power at 12.0-12.5 with low boost . so im sure these would be the same .

has anyone done a before and after test with the supercharger re-flash to see if they lean the car out a bit ?

Joe_Dezod

I think the big part of the flash was to enrichen the closed loop tune, and retard ignition timing. I'd think the wot tune should sit around the 12 area.

It should theoretically be slightly leaner than the non-flashed ECU only under wot. This is due to the larger injectors and the reflash helps to compensate for that. Other than that I'd expect Toyota to run it pretty rich.

When I ran a 13.0AFR on the dyno I made 297wtq at only 9psi haha... That's a tad too lean for me though so when we richened it up it dropped to about 270 at the same boost. Much safer though

toyotaracer9

thats why all these guys making over 300whp with the afr at 10.?? , need to lean it out they should be at 350whp .

ZEROmotorsports

the guys running 300whp are not on 6psi or without tuning. so they are likely not at 10.2 AFR

tuning is recomended with any forced induction setup. even with the computer compensating the extra fuel at 6psi, it still runs aggressive timing

mike6789k

ok, i need an honest answer... lets say i slap on a zpi stage 0, leave it like how it is and drive this car about 4 times a week, mostly weekends, not really racing much or anything... how long will the car last before i need to repair something (not changing oil.. but like changing timing belts and etc... ??

OuterHeaven

Well the only thing would be spark plugs (maybe 10k miles at the earliest) but those are not too expensive (so long as you don’t get iridium’s). If the SC will last with the stock fuel pump, I do not think that would be a problem in the long term for a stage 0. Possibly changing the radiator fluid will be a problem and thermostat a little more often (maybe 30k miles at the earliest). I can’t really think of anything else as far as maintenance.

As for tuning you can really leave the 10.2 AFR. Gas mileage will not be effected that much because you shouldn’t be at full throttle (open loop) that often anyways. I think ZPI recommends not running any of their turbo kits for more then 20 or 30 seconds at a time. Now some people are concerned with partial throttle tuning (closed loop) and well the only option I see right now is the URD Air Fuel Ratio Sensor Calibrator (http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1230100028). This will tune part throttle for you but I do not think anyone has tried using this yet.

toyotaracer9

I have heard both mikescion and rythmsmoke both say they were in the 10. afr range.

rhythmnsmoke

Yes, me and Mike are running very rich. Reason being is that we are racers, who consistently beat on the car. Neither ours nor his car are just simple commuter cars. These cars see the track just about every weekend, and through the week day, an occassional "pick up game" of kill the Ricer. I am willing to bet that a vast majority of ZPI's clients have choosen a ZPI kit, because of their race agenda. Of course we could lean it out a tad, and pick up an extra 20-30whp. But because of the strenousness put through on our cars, Kenny I'm sure felt it was safer to go with a very rich tune. We didn't build the cars to drive everyday (although we do drive it everyday, to work, the store, around town....etc.). But the ultimate goal with this car, as I'm sure Mikescion is on the same page, is to build some of the baddest tC's seen on the boards. Hence the reason there are no 12's sitting in the trunk with two big a$$ amps pushing them. Nor the large body kits, and heavy rims. Instead, it has a C/F front end, and other little tricks to save weight. We are in the market to build a race car, that I can still drive on the street, and that is what ZPI is about.....Being the fastest Scions on the streets/track.


To contribute to the topic at hand, Stage 0 out of the box...Never touched...would be cool for daily driving with the ability to "lead-foot" it when you want to. But like 99.9% of everyone who goes F/I, you will want to turn up the boost. So, with that said, kill two birds at the same time, and go ahead and get an E-manage. Cause it might be 2 months, 5 months, or even 10 months before you decided, "I wonder what 9/10 PSI feels like". It might take longer even, but EVENTUALLY you are going to turn it up for one of three reasons:

1) You just want to see what it's like.

2) Nothing else better to do

3) For the HELL OF IT!

Of course there is a misc. reason, and that is because you lost to a sh!tty car, when you shouldn't have...

nester

We tend to tune the cars rich because of differing climates.. We'd rather lose 15hp and have a safe engine for a customer 1000 miles away, than to tune to edge and have it blow up.

First off, a timing belt is a normal maintenance item. As luck would have it, the 2AZ is chain driven.. so no belt to break.

Back on point, I can tell you all day long that your car will be safe.. but it all comes down to how you treat the car. Between the maf pipe we use and the factory tune, you should not have any trouble at 6psi.

Only you can decide if forced induction is right for you.

mike6789k

ok, and about this richness thing... it isnt TOO bad, right? i mean will my exhaust be sptting out smoke??? (i dont know how bad 10.2 is, so please explain... )

rhythmnsmoke

Aaaheemm....All Turbo cars spit black smoke. Ever seen the Toyota Supra with the RB26 in it that was built by Top Secret ? Spits black smoke too...

toyotaracer9

Aaaheemm....All Turbo cars spit black smoke. Ever seen the Toyota Supra with the RB26 in it that was built by Top Secret ? Spits black smoke too...


I think the reason it was spitting black smoke is because the supra was choking the nissan motor ......j/k

mike6789k

uhhhh are you kidding about the black smoke thing? :wtf: ???