paul_dezod

Kenny,
Now not to say that I doubt the entire large picture here, but let’s start with the obvious.

The EVO III 16G has the following wheels specs:
Compressor Wheels:
1.903” inducer ~ 48mm
2.675” exducer ~ 68mm

Trim = 50 trim

Turbine Specs:
1.935” inducer
2.205 “ major

Simple example of a compressor map and how to read it:


Actual 16G EVO III Compressor map:


The turbo was designed for high boost based upon the VERY large spanning compressor map. It is peaking at PR of 3.2 (32 PSI), but peak output seems to be around a PR of 2.7 (25 PSI) and closely followed by 2.4 (21 PSI). THAT is when peak output of this turbo is made. The turbo reaches full capacity output at 25 PSI and puts out roughly 550cfm ~ 40 lbs/min.

***Let me also mention, that we need to please remember that those 550CFM ratings are at ~100% efficiency, and i kinda doubt your turbo will be running anywhere close to that (it is theoretically impossible [read up on thermodynamics to learn more])*** Peak efficiency on this turbo at best is 71%.

To plot the compressor operating point, first calculate airflow:

Where:
• Wa = Airflowactual (lb/min)
• HP = Horsepower Target (flywheel)
• = Air/Fuel Ratio
• = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption χ 60 (to convert from hours to minutes)

Assuming you want 350hp (crank HP; added 15% for drivetrain loss); I want to choose an air/fuel ratio of 11 and use a BSFC of 0.55. Plugging these numbers into the formula from above:
350 x 11 x .55/60 = 35lbs/min of air is required for that HP requirement on a car.


With this all out in the open, the turbo puts out about 27lbs/min @ about 12 PSI ~ 396CFM on the 2.4L tC assuming the party involved is actually at atmospheric pressure with altitude in mind.

So needless to say, that is why I do not say this is possible on a stock bottom end, stock head and on that boost level. I do not care how well everything else is designed. If the car has a port n polish head and no exhaust (open downpipe) and a couple of other things were done, then I could concur with those numbers. I do not feel we are getting the full picture here.

On a final note, our turbo produces roughly 12whp, 12wtq per PSI of boost. At the acclaimed power level, your 16G (assuming 11 PSI) would put down 16whp, 18wtq per PSI of boost on a stock acclaimed tC. Once again, on the information provided, impossible in my professional opinion. So please, clue me in here.

paul_dezod

If these are indeed your numbers why the huge discrepency in what you posted on our thread?

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...19577&start=25

Thread, 2nd page 1st post. Posted: 5/14/06 9:09PM

rhythmnsmoke

There was a point in time that PHD's in Computer Science said that our Security Software could not do what it was doing, and how it was doing it. There is no such thing as impossible. And you might be playing to much into all that math for your own good.

Simplyscion

stop already with the here comes me to the rescue **** bro...let someone who actually knows what they are talking about explain for themselves...theres ways around assumptions, not mathematics man. Go and enjoy your car while its a nice day out and keep out of the technical stuff...not meaning to sound harsh just had a bad freakin day but seriously...let the two companies explain there own sides

Munch

Exactly

rhythmnsmoke

Who asked for your opinion? If the boy put down the #'s, he put down the #'s.

Where is the mathematics in the other guys thread with the Turbonetics kit who put down 280whp on 9.5PSI, that's the same #'s as Joe@Dezod did on 11PSI.

I tend to not get into the whole..."That's impossible, you couldn't do that" BS crap, and just say "Good job, good #'s". I tend to not pay attention to dyno #'s anymore. For that reason, I probably will never get dynoed. I gauge how fast it is, by the opponents I beat.

paul_dezod

Simple, a dynopak was used. Dynapak are hub based dynos that do not take into account wheel weight, drag, friction coefficient from the tires.....Typically they are the highest dyno ratings. Followed by DynoJet, then DynoMite and lastly Mustang Dyno.

True dynos numbers are just bragging rights anyway; it's just what the car is capable of. 1/4 mile performance and traps are true showing of what the car CAN do.

BlkSandPrlTurbotC

Whoa bro... its cool we can joke around back and forth, but dont attack Paul with a comment like that. You NEED to get into math a lot when doing turbos. There's a reason for it. Just because Paul is Dezod and you are ZPI doesnt mean you can just start attacking him. Paul is a very well educated man, and he knows this $hit when it comes to turbochargers. Paul didnt spend over a year in R&D on their S1 kit for the tC for nothing. His S1 kit was well thought out and well put together. IMHO


Back onto the discussion of this dyno results post.

Now it was 3 days for that dyno pic to be posted, and it wasnt even Mikes. Mike already stated his dyno numbers in Joe's 11 psi thread.

Mike posted 300.2whp and 322.7wtq at 11psi

ZPI posts Mike did 320whp and 356wtq at 11psi

And those numbers on the sheet dont even add up to the title of the post.

That dyno was ran on June 3, 2005. Was this the one you handed Mike, obviously not because the dates dont even add up. Where is Mike's auctal dyno sheet? I thought you personally handed it to him? Did you not save a copy?

I have yet to see one post other than pollups post with a dyno sheet of your guys' kit PROVING numbers.

You should of done a little more reading on that post where Mike already stated his Dyno Results and wouldnt you know it...HIS is LOWER than what you post!

That my friend, is BULL$HIT... proof is in the pudding, just look around, you can see it all over the threads you start

ZPIracing

Well seeing our cars have the fastest 1/4 times of any production kit i guess the proof is in the track numbers.....

We are actually faking all the numbers and the dozen of random customers that see the numbers when they are at the dyno are actually hypnotized in to thinking their car is faster than it actually is.... We almost got caught then we paid off some street races to make the cars look as if they were as fast as advertised.



Compressor maps should only be used to properly match a turbo to a vehicle and not to judge the power of the the turbo as it will be different in every application. We use a turbo that is in the center of its efficency range with a great intercooler and a great cat-back and we make this power. We make the power in front of people who own the car time and time again. Do you think the entire world is out to make ZPI look good a quick search on this forum will quickly prove we earn every praise we get.


Do not try to pollute our threads with conspiracy theories and false claims. If you doubt the power lets line up a race I will even meet you at a local best buy, race track what ever you need.


On 13-14psi we made 365 and 404tq then we went 12.1 with a ____ty 60" guess the power was there and the dyno was not wrong. Here is that video in case you forgot.


http://www.zeropointindustries.net/gallery/videos/ZPI2

Here is a video this car had our mid-pipe, s-pipe kit that is it seems like he is not having any problem making power..Tell me why 1 1.5 pounds and more bolt on mods can not add 30whp?

https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...hlight=dyltone


The problem here is that your kit is not performing the turbonetics kit looks to be doing good as people turn up the boost. Maybe you should go back to the drawing board and fix your issues instead of copying and pasting BS in our customer threads.

Don't reply to this post that we need to be more proffesional save it. We will not allow you to call our customer liars or attempt to take away all the hard work we have put into our kits or the hard work they have put into being able to pay for them.

-Kenny Strickler

SmokintC

Point is, Who wants to sit around all day and night with nothing but a bunch of numbers? Personally I would rather get it on the track and not on a sheet wrap... Our cars that we have spent time,money, blood, and sweat on for what? a piece of paper to approve that we had the 300hp mark? I doubt that. Most of us do it for the track... I want to see the headlights of another car in my mirror as i smoke em by.. Not pull up in my beater car to bring out a paper like damn check out these numbers.. Sure its nice ,but id rather have it all in the track and not the paper..

ZPIracing

I agree we are racers and that is all we really care about....not looking good, not being cool, winning and that is what we hope to create with our parts, advice, support winners.

ZPIracing

reading the third sentance of my post will prove to be useful for you. I have already stated that we did not have his chart but i assure you i will post it as soon as we do.

BlkSandPrlTurbotC

prove it to me first....

because right now, jerseymike ran 300whp and 322wtq at 11psi. He posted it one day b4 you claimed 320whp

I think if he did 320/356 he woulda posted those numbers...

dont ya think??

BlkSandPrlTurbotC

The companies who make the turbos that we use today do.

So .....whats your point again?

SmokintC

Give the man (Kenny) a moment Tomorrow (hopefully lol ) he will post the dyno and explain. These turbo's are well capable of the power So im not under estimating it. Just we will wait and see. ZPI is well capable of it. If anyone is they are. Iv seen some of there runs before and let me tell you. That car is fast.... maybe the dyno Jm did was f***ed.. lol... Just tomorrow hopefully we will get the dyno sheet to see.. Cause this post is going to far with all the bullshyt and head bashing.. We are all mature street racers. Maybe we should settle this at the streets or better yet, the next Scion Shootout ...

SmokintC

Again.. From a street racers point of VIEW.. Cause we all our . That is what we build our cars up for.. Gooo.. I dont go to the local track and take out my moms beat up shytty minivan and pull out a dyno sheet..

nester

If I have to drive to Clemons tomorrow and get the dyno sheets, so be it.

However, when it's all said and done, at the end of the day, Mike left Louisville with a car that he was extremely happy with. And that my friends, is all I really care about.

PS: I'm ready for a ZPI vs DEZOD shootout. ;) Pinks?

BlkSandPrlTurbotC

Whats there to explain? Oh im sorry, I guess it was just another BS "quote" that Paul copy and pasted right? HAH..yeah ok


I think if he did run 320whp, he would of posted it...but guess what he posted 300.

SmokintC

Now I would def. have to see that... Company vs. Company.. nice friendly compition.. lol

BlkSandPrlTurbotC

go ahead, but he already posted his results.

wow real mature?? so now you want to challenge a company that has been posting FACTS about the 16G turbo that you are using?? hah, wow you guys are really losing your cool!

i guess Kenny is callin all the troops together in this topic. LOL