jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

the dyno is in mph??? not rpms? it honestly looks like a bad thing to have a header w/ the trd map. Im guessing that was w/ methanol on?

Im wondering if your tires is whats giving you a few less hp.

ericsscion

iTrader: (1)

i cant wait to see it tommorow karl ... give me a call so i can get the address to get there

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

I think karl should have something this sunday at his house since he will be "the man" --hehe - Karl - Ill deff bring ya some beer if ya do.

ericsscion

iTrader: (1)

i'll bring beer too ... i love beer

IceNine

It's certainly possible. My tires do in fact suck (Falken 512's).

And yeah, having a header + free flow exhaust DOES change things with the TRD map. The TRD map was calculated with an expected amount of backpressure - and that backpressure is essentially gone now. So the end result is an increase in HP, but a decrease in torque.

Of course, the Emanage Ultimate will fix that right up

IceNine

I don't have much going on sunday - an LED swap early in the morning, then nothing the rest of the day...

But let's see how the rest of today goes

Nick06tC

This is awesome. Cant wait to see the reults!!

eLpReSiDeNtE

hey bro i might stop by tomorrow afternoon im tryin to see if my boy wont mind driving my car out there

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

I have a broken s/c mount - i want to go to your house to see this but im not sure if its the best move. Anybody that has this problem has been driving on it and nothing went wrong but i dunno.

PghtC

just go...you won't have a problem. There are other bolt holding it on there.

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

since the day is almost over I am going to assume karl is there now. I hope to see an update on whats going on by 8ish.

IceNine

OK, well, here's my update.... First the bad news.

During the dyno pulls there were 2 distinct problems - First is belt slippage. Even with my 7pk2250 belt, i'm obviously losing some boost as the dyno was only reading 6lb of boost max. I was able to fix this by heading to Autozone and grabbing some STP Belt Dressing. After driving this afternoon, my boost gauge has seen 8lb+ so I'm assuming that problem is solved.

Second, my windshield washer resevoir was emtpy and I didn't realize it - so my tune was done without water/meth. Fixing this problem was pretty easy though

I'll be honest, I'm NOT quite sure how much these 2 issues factor into my numbers, but feel free to speculate. Now, without further delay:

Here's my original baseline, which includes:

TRD SC
NST 9.5lb pulley (MAY have had belt slippage, i'm honestly not sure)
Alphawerks Header
Draxas exhaust (S-pipe back)
Meth/Water omitted because the resevoir was empty Click images to make full size.



Now, here's the same with the following added:

Greddy Emanage Ultimate (w/Dezod Harness)
New experimental cam:

1. Here's HP + AFR:



250ish whp with slightly rich AFR

2. Here's HP + Torque:



3. Now, here's everything.... Here's the legend:

Red = Water/Meth, 9.5lb pulley (and that's it, STOCK exhaust mfd throughout)
Blue = Yesterday's baseline, TRD map, Full exhaust, no water/meth
Purple = Today, Emanage, cam, missing water-meth, 6lb total measured boost



4. And here's the same with Dotted-blue being TRD's AFR map and Purple dotted being the new tuned map:



As you can see, the TRD map is just that - a turd. Starts out lean, finally hits rich when boost is applied.

So.... that's that for now until NST sends me my 12lb pulley, which will take a few weeks. That'll mean a quick retune after install, THEN we'll see what my actual numbers will be since i'll DEFINITELY remember to fill my meth resevoir up and spray a little belt dressing on!

kytc

So how much do they think the cam added?

IceNine

I can *KIND OF* speculate. It's kind of hard to. But here's what we know:

I'm missing water-meth for this tune.

We know that Ripp has tuned a stock SC setup (7lb, which I *THINK* measured 6 as well) with nothing but e-man ultimate AND water-meth to 238WHP

I did e-man ultimate, but i'm MISSING water-meth for these pulls. I'm reading 6lb boost AT THE DYNO because of belt slippage (at least, that's the theory). I did 250.

If I go by my base TRD tune, water-meth initially added 8whp. But with the e-man tune, it COULD be more significant (DAMN i wish I remembered to check that resevoir).

Again, all speculation, and I would have had it all worked out if he didn't have another @#%$^@# tC to do.

Here's some logic - but keep in mind my logic is EXTREMELY flawed because you can't translate WHP numbers from the TRD map to a custom tuned map... but let's use the TRD map numbers for the sake of argument where we can....

Stock boost + eman-ult + water/meth == 238WHP on ripp's dyno. (no TRD map) (NOT MINE)

9.5lb pulley (reading as 6), eman-ult + NO water/meth == 250whp on ripp's dyno (MINE)

So my variables are:

Belt slippage: if moving up to a 9.5lb means roughly 8whp on TRD's map WITHOUT slippage, what does it mean on a corrected e-man ult map once my slippage is eliminated? (remember, I couldn't dyno at that point since he was tuning another car) Where *I* personally went wrong here was dropping to a 2250 sized belt after installing a 20% alternator overdrive pulley and a lightened WP pulley.... the 2265 didn't cut it anymore, and I couldn't find a gatorback belt in 2250 size locally. So I went with a Advance Auto Parts cheapie. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me that it slipped before slapping some dressing on it. And I can only say THEORETICALLY that the boost problem is gone because my boost gauge is reading 7-9lb while romping on it.

Water-Meth: We know that water-meth adds like 7-8whp with the TRD map. not sure what it means with a corrected map...

So let's deduct the only numbers we know, as wrong (and as conservative) as they may be:

238WHP - 8whp (meth on trd) == 230 with 6lb boost. If we were to equalize our installs, that's essentially what it would be considering I'm reading the same boost level he did at stock.

Now, this COULD mean that smaller pulleys don't mean jack (which I won't believe without proof But at this point, it LOOKS like the cam is adding roughly 20whp. Again, the logic is flawed, but SOMEWHAT applicable.

Correct my theory as appropriate, because I'm just as intruiged as the rest of ya! The bottom line is, we won't truly know until I do another baseline (in a few weeks when the 12lb pulley comes in, which will require a new tune).

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

what was the actual final numbers at 6lbs boost? 248whp\225torque?

kytc

Is ripp going to sell the cam and if so do you know how much? Great numbers btw, congratulations

IceNine

249whp, didn't get a torque number. But I can tell you, the car behaves SO much more differently now. Just fixing the torque issue from the TRD map + headers was enormous.

I would think so.... this is kind of experimental....

I asked Perry (P.R.A. Solutions, basically their tuner)... "So, Perry... think we'll have any problems? Maybe throw a CEL or something?"

His response - "I don't know, you think we might? It's an experimental cam, so why not just call me when you DO throw one!"

I guess it's at that point where I REALLY knew what I was getting myself into.... haha

I mean, let's be realistic here... It's a new cam + computer (for the most part). You can kiss VVTI goodbye since you're relying on the Greddy unit...

Who knows what will happen

IceNine

OH! I owe a MAJOR "SWEET JESUS YOU ROCK MORE THAN ANYONE WHO HAS EVER ROCKED BEFORE" Shout-out to TCMETALFREAK.

This man went above and beyond. Not only did he agree to pick me up at ripp, he agreed to do it on a FRIDAY NIGHT in NEW JERSEY while having to traverse THREE MAJORLY CONTESTED HIGHWAYS (I-80, NJTP, I-27 during RUSH HOUR!

And THEN he said "OK! See you tomorrow at 1 to bring you back!"

The man has the patience of a saint, especially when you consider it wasn't even his car that would benefit!

Thanks, Matt. You *ARE* the man.

jwaggz82

iTrader: (1)

pistons and rods next w/ an increased redline?

kytc

If this cam works out I'm feeling it plus full head work and oil pump along with a pnp and pistons next spring/summer for me