Just wondering what the Pros and cons are of doing this.. my tuner brought it up to me saying he would like to do it..

 

Unless you are going to by-pass the factory ecu altogether...(standalone, and not a standalone like the hydra or how most piggyback the ems) But truly a standalone.

and that requires you to rewire your dash etc.(guages etc)

You cant delete it altogether.....you can tune to the point (clamping) so that its basically doing nothing...but the ecu still needs to know its there.

I assume you want to convert to MAP?

Regards-

Todd

 

no idea but im using an ultimate? idk what he wanted to do.. i think he wanted to take the intake pipe out and put mesh over the turbo or a filter right on it.

 

what management? i'de like to see how the ultimate does this.. but while you are using the stock ecu for tuning vacumm and boost, the maf does a lot of the function..

if this can be done, that would be awesome.. The hydra maf delete has been awesome so far

 

The ultimate has a MAP conversion, but you still need to utilize the MAF sensor.

If he wants to take the intake out:

make sure you use an air filter

convert to a blow through maf =

install maf sensor right before the tb...in the middle of a 6" long straight section (cant be near any elbows) into a 2.75" diameter pipe. (the rest of your piping I assume is 2.5 just modify the top section and use reducer couplers at the new joint and tb.)

Hope that makes sense.

Regards-

Todd

 

luiggi probably meant a blow by maf set up like mines.

 

ya thats what i think hes talkin about

 

Yes, it is possible to use the the e-Manage Ultimate to create a psuedo speed-density fueling scheme. The airflow output map can be used to send a set of "fake" voltage output readings to the stock ECU to allow you to totally eliminate the airflow sensor. The air temp sensor would be another part of the equation that would need to be addressed, but this is possible to get around too.

Now the question, is this beneficial over just using a blow-thru MAF set-up like what we have used on our TA tC and our soon to be released turbo kit. The answer to that is probably not.

The reasons are rather simple. The main reason for eliminating a factory MAF sensor is either to eliminate stalling issues when running a standard draw-thru MAF set-up with a BOV. (This can be addressed with the blow-thru MAF). The other, more important reason would be to eliminate a factory MAF sensor that is inherently RESTRICTIVE. Among a few these examples would be an earlier trap door style MAF (i.e. MR-2 turbo), Supra TT MAF (small, restrictive opening), Karman Vortex style MAF with all the honeycombs and such (DSM, EVO, etc.).

We've successfully implemented a MAF delete fueling scheme on a customer's Supra TT. Many tuners have claimed that this was not possible with the Greddy EMU, therefore the MAP ECU brand of piggy-back ECU was the choice to do this. Well, with A LOT of time on the dyno using load control mode, we were able to make this a reality with the Greddy EMU. Basically the Airflow Output map needs to be populated with voltage values that the ECU would normally see for a given pressure value over rpm.

Though this may sound easy, I can pretty much guarantee you that unless your tuner has a loading type dyno (i.e. not a dynojet inertia dyno) this will probably never happen. Most people try to use just simple data logging to log the airflow voltage values to use in the airflow output map. This will not work properly. You need to view very steady state AFRs in order to determine the proper voltage values needed for every load point on the airflow output map.

We opted for the blow-thru MAF set-up on our turbo kit and our TA tCs because we do not feel that there is anything to be gained by eliminating the Denso probe style MAF. This is because the probe has a rather small cross-sectional area and does not pose a restriction to airflow. Now the other question we run across is doesn't boost hurt the MAF probe. The answer is no - the MAF probe is of a very durable, sealed hotwire style with no honeycombs, etc. And FWIW too, just about every 350Z/G35 SC or Turbo kit I can think of off the top of my head, and there are many, is of a blow-thru design. The 350Z/G35 uses the same style MAF probe as the tC. We've already run 20+ PSI through our MAF sensor with no issues.

So, while it would be cool to eliminate the MAF entirely without going with a full standalone, it would probably be more ideal to go with a blow-thru MAF set-up. This set-up will allow you to run a larger TIAL BOV, etc. without any idling or stalling issues normally associated with a standard draw-thru MAF. You will not be forced to run the pull-type HKS SSQBOV, which does not flow nearly as much air as the 50mm Tial BOV and more importantly is a major PITA to install IMO. Lastly, you can run a much larger intake system on your turbo compressor inlet. There is no sense in running a GT30R or GT35R with a stepdown coupler and a 2.5 or 3 intake tube when the turbo is designed to run a 4" intake tube.

And yes, just like with a turbo exhaust system, you cannot go too large with the intake system. *Again, I feel like I'm trying to beat a dead horse getting this point across*. Just try drinking a milkshake through a small straw and you will understand what I'm getting at. Just remember folks, there IS a reason why high HP turbocharged drag cars do not utilize an air filter or full exhaust. Yes, bigger is better , but ONLY when you can implement it properly for a street driven car.

Now, is a larger intake guaranteed to make more power than a 2.5" intake tube at "X" psi, maybe not, but it will ever hurt with spoolup or peak power output, absolutely not. Run a little more boost though and you will probably start noticing the HP difference on a dyno with a larger intake anf filter. We opted for a 4" intake (no need to upgrade, when switching to a GT turbo) and a 3" downpipe/s-pipe exhaust (largest practical size exhaust that will fit underneath the tC) for this very reason.

Alright, as usual, I've typed way more than what the average person wants to read and have probably turned this into a FAQ thread, but the tech junkies out there will hopefully find this post useful.

 

nice info!

 

Wow that was very informative, thx P-Tuning, im guessing my Tuner was talking about the blow-thru because he ahd mentioned putting a mesh on the turbo or even putting my blitz filter directly on it, also it came up when we discussed the stalling issue i inevitably have with the automatic.. my turbo has a 4" outlet for the intake pipe and we had to buy a rubber connector to downsize the fitting to a 2.5" pipe so the blow-thru sounds like the best bet for my vehicle.

 

Yes Chad I was referring to go to a blow-thru MAF set-up to utilize the "4" Inlet for a better spool and top end power. A lot of people are unaware that you can completely remove the factory MAF by simulating a voltage output to the ECU like P-Tuning mentioned but it would be unpractical to do it on the TC's b/c of the less restrictive Probe style MAF. I've done this mod on a couple of Evo's, 300ZX, and Julio's Torano. Don't worry Chad We will get this stalling issue resolved and get some more HP out of it in the process.

Take it easy...
Luiggi F.