victor123897

iTrader: (1)

Ok guys, i come to you all out of desperation for help with my TC.

I have had rough idling problems for as long as ive had the car. (Bought it with the Turbo already in place) The mechanic that owned the car before me was not a good mechanic and all the work he seemed to do was complete ____... So, i will list all the symptoms that my machine has and what ive tried to do to fix it

Problem- Idles rough
Symptoms
-Starts and makes an odd sound like a dead cylinder for a second and then stops
-Idles rough, but extremely rough after getting into heavy boost
-Makes same sound as it did when it starts if at a stop, like a dead cylinder occasionally (About every 20 seconds)
-AFRs between 15.7 and 18 at idles

Fix's ive tried
-Patched all Exhaust leaks
-Patched all boost leaks
-Checked O2 sensor (my tuner had a good one laying around and he swapped it into my car and it didn't make a difference with the AFR's)
-Cleaned MAF



Here is the history.
Bought the car with a turbo on it running 7 psi, no tuning system on it or larger injectors. I have ran the car like this ever since. ( 3 months) A couple weeks ago I tried to get it tuned with bigger injectors put in. The problem we ran into when trying to do this is my AFR ratio was running from 15.7 all the way through 18.0 So extremely lean, giving us no baseline to tune from.. In response to this, we attempted to trouble shoot the problem. Found all exhaust leaks, patched them, and found all boost leaks ( there was actually a hole in a charge pipe) And fixed them. After we read the AFR again and still the same numbers (These numbers are at idle) The car always runs lean like this, but will idle smoother if i'm not getting into boost. The car idles rough after i have ran it hard. If i do run it hard, it will die at nearly every stop. I am completely stumped. I have performed a compression test with the turbo on and got all numbers above 170


On crank compression of 5 turns were 170 172 175 175
on 7 turns i got 172 172 180 185

After i did a running compression test. When the car was idling smooth it would be around 60 psi then every 15 seconds or so it would run rough and hit 90 psi for about 2 or 3 seconds before correcting and dropping back down to 60. Not exactly sure why this is happening... But just thought i'd let you all know. And i have already cleaned my MAF, and primary o2 sensor is working.

I have one extremely small oil leak on the turbo oil return line, but it doesn't leak enough to change oil levels significantly, to cause this problem...

Also I noticed something interesting with my oil gauge. As i fire the car up from a cold start, ill get a reading of something like 20 psi at idle, as the car warms though this reading starts to drop, and before i know it im at 0 psi at idle and 10 psi at 2k RPM... Not sure if its a faulty gauge, but i bought it brand new from amazon... It is a dragon gauge.

Also no noticeable leakage in injectors. All showed resistance at 20 ohms so that seemed consistent. Am running 5w 30 oil royal purple as well.

Would be extremely thankful for any help! Thank you

thendawg

iTrader: (2)

Curious what kind of engine management are you using?

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

None as i stated above, when i tried to get it installed, i was unable because my tuner had no baseline to tune from because we couldn't get the AFR's to a consistent 14.7

But i took out the spring in the waste gate today, to see if that would help, but it still idles rough when i push it hard. Given it idles much smoother then it does when the turbo is spooling, it still idles rough enough to make a coughing/Stuttering sound and rocks the car a bit.

thendawg

iTrader: (2)

Have you connected an OBDII scanner to the car to look at fuel trims, etc? Ive seen this happen before when the factory wideband (front 02 sensor) was constantly reading rich, causing the ecu to correct full lean. You say you replaced it, did you replace the primary 02 with the correct sensor? Its a 4 wire wideband, NOT a universal narrowband sensor you can pick up for $25.

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

Well yeah, i say i replaced it but i guess that's not really the correct term. I double checked it to make sure it was working, my tuner had a good one laying around and he swapped it into my car and it didn't make a difference with the AFR's

Corrected the wording as well.

thendawg

iTrader: (2)

Was this the stock sensor, or the sensor for your aftermarket wideband gauge? The one Im speaking of is the stock front 02 sensor, which is actually a 4 wire wideband. Its what determines the LT and ST fuel trims in the ECU. I would highly recommend getting an OBDII scanner or usb attachment capable of monitoring fuel trims, timing, etc, so that you can see how the ECU is behaving when this occurs.

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

I did check fuel trims, my tuner had a scanner, and they ended up leveling out to make each other about 0 give or take 1. I don't remember the numbers exactly though, but i believe that's all he was able to check. I didn't get timing ETC.. Will try to find an OBDII scanner and see if i can get all those numbers down.

And yes it was the stock sensor, sorry for the confusing wording.

thendawg

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, is it throwing any CEL codes? Also is the MAF a pull through or blow through setup? (maf sensor before or after turbo) Also have you thoroughly checked for vac leaks? If you have a boost/vac gauge, how much vac are you seeing at idle?

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, just read the CELs. I got some odd ones that i have never seen before...
I got P0351-354 Ignition coil A B C & D Primary/Secondary system........ First time ive ever seen that...
Ontop of it i got p0441 evaporative emission system incorrect purge flow and
p0455 evaporative emission system leak detected (gross leak/no flow)

I knew i had the 0441 and 0455 but i have never seen the 0351 through 0354 before..

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

Here is the sound it's making..

http://youtu.be/tFD1QfLcHw8

Jan06xB

Wow that sure sounds tinny with no engine cover, maybe a timing issue since it doesn't sound like a skip but if you listen to the tail pipe does it pop at all or do you smell any unburnt fuel? That would indicate a spark skip or unfired fuel charge. You might do a compression check in case you have a valve problem seeing how you have a TURBO !

OK now that I read your first post duh? Yeah no oil pressure at idle is not good you have valve issues for sure from your compression test and maybe rod bearing that are beat - drop the pan and check all bearings on the crank. Ring check would be a good idea, a small amount of oil in the cylinders during the compression test, if it increases pressure ... Leaky rings and valves go just as fast when running lean - 18 AFR is great for economy but not for valves and pistons - tends to get them too hot! Like my brother says ... Turbos make the crank fail no matter how good you built it up they will eventually fail, there is just too much stress. He has worked on everything from small motorcycles to jet engines.

thendawg

iTrader: (2)

The evap codes wouldnt affect this so you can rule those out. The coil codes, when you clear them do they come back? If so Id suspect a wiring issue, highly doubt all 4 coil packs are jacked. Secondly, that noise sounds mechanical in the vid. It could just be the mic on the camera though so its hard to tell. If it is mechanical Id suspect something in the bottom end from the oil pressure issue you noted. Rod bearing possibly going causing a slight knock? If its electrical Id start looking through the wiring. Possibly the last owner had some type of engine management that involved interrupting the coil pack wiring (ems, emanage ult, etc).

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

No codes came back, i cleared it and have driven 20 miles or so...

That_Kid_Ju

You need to drive around 50 miles or so, sometimes more. This is where a code scanner really helps since it'll tell you when the system is ready.

No oil pressure at idle is not good. On cold start, mine is around 50 psi, then drops gradually as the engine warms up to around 10 psi at idle. Try fixing your oil leak to see if it helps with the pressure at least. If not, get a new gauge and/or sensor. You definitely don't want to be driving around with no oil pressure on a boosted car.

BlackKnight

You need to do this, change all plugs to 1 heat range colder, get at leadt 550cc injectors, get a emanage ultimate. Select 2AZ-FE in the ultimate and start tuning. Its thst easy. This means of course a professional tuning doing the tune. Try a different oil pressure gauge. Does your oil light turn on when the ignition is on and engine is off? If so, do you ever see the oil light flicker or vome on with the engine running?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

Jan06xB

Too much oil flow to the turbo? Loosing pressure to the engine? Huh?

BlackKnight

I am not sure about that either, I do know if you are running a ball bearing turbo you need an oil restrictor.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

victor123897

iTrader: (1)

Well, unfortunately engine gave way today. Was pulling into my school parking lot, and heard a odd pop, and then the engine began misfiring. After towing it home, i took off my valve cover and found some bad news at the cams. They looked quite damaged, i found one had actually been chipped, and one looked to have been burned. Ontop of this one of them also looked a little beat up. Will post pictures.

Chipped Cam





Burn Mark



Different slightly chipped Cam



General Engine shot




As to where to go from here, i am not really sure. I was planning on getting some Brian crower stage 2 cams (With valve retainer kit) and then some CP pistons and rings and attempt to install those. Not really sure the extent of the damage yet though. Anyone have any idea what would cause extensive misfires? Not sure whether to attempt to build my engine, or just buy an entire new stock one... Hoping the new pistons, and cams will get it back in running condition. I am not too familiar with engine work.. but i believe a new set of cams and pistons with rings should suffice as a basic rebuild (Correct me if im wrong). Will further diagnose the engine this weekend, before buying any parts, though and get back to this post.


Thanks guys for all the help so far... Greatly apreciated.

Roller_Toaster

iTrader: (1)

Well, it really sucks that his happened..but if you were planning on building it anyways...there is really not a better time to get a fresh start on what (seemed to be) a questionable engine!

Jan06xB

Yup pull the head, check the valves, check the cylinder bores, check the bottom end bearings and crank for wear and out of round journals, think oil pump too!