Enrique_Dezod

I do have to agree with Paul here. Spending $3K+ on a motor build and then going ahead and hoping a $300 unit holds my investment down is friggin nutzorz.

That is like some people on the west side over here that spend $1500 on Tein coilovers, spend $3000 on wheels only to put 4 for $100 Walmart tires. Priceless!!!

Danger_Darren

Since when does installing pistons and rods cost $2000. I could do that myself in a weekend.

I would still probably choose standalone engine management though. Piggybacks only go so far.

Mr_Meaty

I have to agree with Travis on his earlier point. I think my F/IC is good for at least 400whp, where my stock block is not, so I'd rather have my F/IC an 400whp on a built block then the AEM EMS putting 350 on my stock block, which is not much different then my AEM F/IC putting 350whp on my stock block. I think a standalone is (almost) a waste of money without a stock block behind it.


ScionTG35R is making over 470whp on a built block and running a Greddy unit (can't remember blue or ultimate)
https://www.scionlife.com/forums/vie...439&highlight=

etsnet

iTrader: (2)

My first thought was get the built motor but I read that the EMS does traction control and I didn't know that. I also have to say that you could get a built motor and ultimate and should be safer and still sell you blue to recover some of the cost.

I have a built motor and blue emanage but just bought an ultimate and sold the blue. I would of gotten the AEM EMS but just don't have the $2K to get it. You may ask why I didn't get it first and that's because it wasn't out before my motor blew.

Either way buy it from Dezod.

rhythmnsmoke

Dan Gardner? Who said anything about Dan Gardner and road racing? Is the orginal poster Dan Gardner?

So, to clarify, from the tone of your response.....You are saying that the Emanage can't handle 400whp on a built motor tC? Interesting stand point, can you back that up with some data? Again, comparing Apples to Oranges here. 9 out of 10 tC drivers on this forum

1) Are not putting constant abuse to their cars (such as road racing).

and

2) They aren't anywhere near 600whp on their Daily Drivers.

If you want to keep throwing the Leslie, Tran's, Rado's and Gardner's into the mix, then YES I agree with your position. But speaking from the position of what makes up 95% of the tC's in the F/I section (daily drivers, not abusive, that see the drag strip mostly if they are doing any racing), then I'm going built motor first than Standalone.

Mr_Meaty

Um...ScionGT35R is pushing over 475 with the Greddy.

etsnet...why did you get the ultimate instead of the AEM F/IC piggyback?

rhythmnsmoke

ScionGT35R has that Magical MOJO...since you know, according to Paul, 400whp on a built block and the GReddy stuff is not possible.

This arguement is pretty stupid really. It's like saying, should I get a TRD Limited Slip, or a Set of Slicks. Yet both in combination would be the ideal/optimum solution.

Mr_Meaty

Yeah, completely apples to oranges, liek saying should I get a Vette or a Lexus...just cause they cost the same does not make them good comparisons

...however, i think this is a VERY legitimate question, as we all will come to the point where we consider our next mod, and we have $3000 saved up, and we have to decide on built block or AEM EMS (or hydra). I want both, but I want the built block FIRST.

rhythmnsmoke

Built block for me next (consider contacting Leslie's team for that). Then the Hydra will be right after that (months time).

SLIVER007

Hey paul, Do people you come across realize they need to sleeve the motor when building it?

TCFROEZEL

i would take the built block too.
Since you can begin enjoying 400 HP.
and later on upgrade to another EMS to get your full potential.
2 set of good rubber should do the Job in my opinion.
I would not like to have a full EMS lot's of $$$ invested and still lose by someone with an E-manage tuned TC doing 400 Ponies.
AMEN !!!

etsnet

iTrader: (2)

I got it over the AEM F/IC for two reasons. One being that you can change the rev limiter and two I got it for $500shipped with the pnp harness. This made for a great price for a piggyback that can do more important stuff needed then the blue. AEM F/IC can't increase the rev and would of cost around $750shiped with the harness. It will do for now but as soon as I can get the AEM standalone I will.

paul_dezod

I did silly! You must have missed that one too Travis.

Don, last season was making around 200whp ALL MOTOR on EMS. So, what is to say about that? He is part throttle a ton on the track, and is constantly needing 100% control over the car to give him the edge. I guess THAT was my point., but you failed to catch it yet again. He won 1st place in PTE and TTE for NASA last year, and is competing in Grand AM too this season.

Power levels and piggybacks are closely related. There are limitations of control that do occur with piggybacks and for a softly driven 50-100whp, you can get away with using a piggyback. WOT is also great with a piggyback too. The issue at hand is how often do you drive WOT or softly? Not much! You drive that 20%-60% throttle point, 90% of the time, which is where control with MOST piggys fails on the tC.

As I recall, you washed your rings finally from your piggy tune. Did you ever repair the car Travis?


ANYTHING is possible, but is it reliable is the next question....THAT is my point.

Can and will he have driven it for months and months, abusing it on the street to have it hold up with the e-manage and not wash a ring or deform a rod........

The EMS is 100% user definable and the only party to blame is the customer or engine builder for failure. The tuner only pushes it as far as the customer lets him.

paul_dezod

If 400+ is your goal, consider it.

paul_dezod

If you do not have the proper tools and instrumentation to mic out each and every component to service manual specs; you can run into some hearty problems!

paul_dezod

Werd. Those cats over there are a trip.

brett561tc

take it from someone who did option #1 first. GO WITH OPTION #2!!!!!!!!!

granted you can make 400 at the wheels with the e-manage. however, give it a week or two and that number will drop significantly. the e-manage gets _____ slaped by the cars ecu constantly. 2nd to the exauhst manifold/ turbo combo. the ems is the corner stone of your turbo kit. that is how you will make the power. having a built motor, and a crappy e-manage, is like having a footlong weiner and not being able to get hard.

recliner15

Someone with expierence chiming it.. thanks brett

rhythmnsmoke

I didn't fail to catch anything. You are comparing Road Racing tC's to daily driven tC's. And saying both need Standalone. Sorry, I disagree. Lets keep it Apples to Apples comparison here. I know about Dan Gardner. I asked you was Dan Gardner the starter of this thread? Answer is NO.

Your reccollection would be inaccurate....lol. Who told you I washed my rings? Cause that didn't come out of my mouth/keyboard. The only thing needing repair with my car was the turbo seals. Thanks for asking though. Piggyback is still fine, still good. If I had to say something got washed out due to my piggy's tune, it would be my Primary 02 sensor. Due to running it with 10's A/F ratio, which is not the fault of the piggy.


ANYTHING is possible, but is it reliable is the next question....THAT is my point.

Can and will he have driven it for months and months, abusing it on the street to have it hold up with the e-manage and not wash a ring or deform a rod........

The EMS is 100% user definable and the only party to blame is the customer or engine builder for failure. The tuner only pushes it as far as the customer lets him.[/quote]


Wow...so let me make sure I have this correct, seeing as how I'm Missing a lot....lol...so, if a ring washes out, or a rod is deformed (Granted we are talking about a Built block here), it's the fault of the Emanage. But on a STOCK block with AEM standalone, you are somehow bullet proof just because you have a standalone?

Yeah, I'm going to have to say I disagree.

You seem to keep forgetting that we are comparing

A) Built Block 2az with Emanage

and

B) Stock Block 2az with AEM


I'm sorry, I fail to see how option B is a Bullet proof option over option A. And I fail to see how Emanage is So MONUMENTALLY erroneous that it's going to wash out aftermarket piston rings or deform (Stronger that stock) rods.

rhythmnsmoke

So retune it... As mentioned though, a standalone should be bought generally at the same time. But if I had to choose one "before" the other, then I choose built motor first.

If having to retune it ever so often due to the ecu slapping around the emanage is the biggest problem, it's not big enough to make me want to go standalone before built motor. Especially if you are tuning your own ride, or get discounts from a tuner to tune your ride.

But hey, the OP has the information, it's all about making a decision now.