Throttle response
#61
#62
Originally Posted by SePaTc
Originally Posted by Obike
Originally Posted by Mr_Meaty
Well, my BOV is not recirculating, and I'm not haveing any issues. Also, my blow by on my valve cover is not connected to my intake pipe, so I dont' have any excess blow by going into my intake. Even on the stock setup, it's after the MAF sensor, so it would not dirty that sensor.
2) You'll notice a huge improvement in drivability by going to a recirculating setup, you can tune around dumping to atmosphere (especially if you have a MAP sensor).
1) the MAF can get fouled up if its placed after the PCV hose, ie. between the PCV hose and the throttle body.
it can even get fouled up if its too close to either an oiled filter medium or the PCV hose, even if upflow of the actual bung.
2) no one with a tc is going to have a map sensor, so thats a pretty useless statement.
obviously, measuring air pressure inside the manifold is more accurate than metering in the intake tract because its closer to the actual combustion chambers.... but thats neither here nor there.
the point is, recirculating your BOV is the best and most efficient design. And no, it would have no effect if you hook up your recirculated hose BEFORE the MAF and add that air to pre-metered air. It is effectively boosting the intake charge before it even reaches the compressor, which is helpful to have the air measured so as not to totally confuse your ecu.
1) If you read anything I've said, that's what I was talking about. You've just re-typed what I have stated several times in this thread. If you are curious, I can even copy/paste these in a quote for you to understand. Some people have placed the MAF on the charge piping after the BOV in order to have the car run properly in-between shifts when dumping to atmosphere. If you circulate the blow-by gasses (PCV system) into the intake (as it should be rather than slapping a filter onto the PCV) you will either foul the MAF or have to clean it quite frequently.
2) You obviously have no experience with boosted tC's. Several piggyback solutions allow the purchase of a MAP sensor to aid in tuning, and almost all that use a full standalone use a MAP sensor as well. In fact, you can even delete the MAF and setup the car to run purely on the MAP sensor (this would disable the ability to measure intake air temperatures though, so it is useful to have it around just for that purpose). Having the MAF voltage output based on what pressure is seen after the throttlebody is the most ideal way to tune the vehicle when running a piggyback.
Also, let's clarify on some mistakes you have made. If you circulate the BOV/BPV/DV to right before the MAF (meaning that the air will be re-measured before reaching the turbo) the ECU will measure things improperly. If you recirculate, it must go post-MAF.
Just look at any Audi, Porsche, VW, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Scion, Lexus, Infiniti, Subaru, etc etc etc that recirculates the BOV/BPV/DV and uses a MAF-based system. You'll see what I'm pointing out is accurate.
#63
Originally Posted by SePaTc
Originally Posted by engifineer
Wow... you cant take enough time to read either... or you would have read that part of my reply. As usual sepa, you hear what you want to, close out the rest so you can pretend you know all the answers. And perfect rewording there to describe yourself... shut those ears when you dont understand the concepts or the arguments and keep spouting off the same answers. Bury your foot a bit deeper into your mouth ??
Another sore reminder of why so many avoid the forums more and more... too many kids who would argue with a tree.. even if the tree werent really arguing back
Another sore reminder of why so many avoid the forums more and more... too many kids who would argue with a tree.. even if the tree werent really arguing back
stop projecting hypocrite. i never said using a lighter flywheel won't improve throttle response and acceleration. you just can't get over that fact to see the real issue at hand can you???
ok, going back to my b18c1 OBD2a to OBD2b wiring matching madness.
#64
Originally Posted by Obike
Originally Posted by SePaTc
Originally Posted by Obike
Originally Posted by Mr_Meaty
Well, my BOV is not recirculating, and I'm not haveing any issues. Also, my blow by on my valve cover is not connected to my intake pipe, so I dont' have any excess blow by going into my intake. Even on the stock setup, it's after the MAF sensor, so it would not dirty that sensor.
2) You'll notice a huge improvement in drivability by going to a recirculating setup, you can tune around dumping to atmosphere (especially if you have a MAP sensor).
1) the MAF can get fouled up if its placed after the PCV hose, ie. between the PCV hose and the throttle body.
it can even get fouled up if its too close to either an oiled filter medium or the PCV hose, even if upflow of the actual bung.
2) no one with a tc is going to have a map sensor, so thats a pretty useless statement.
obviously, measuring air pressure inside the manifold is more accurate than metering in the intake tract because its closer to the actual combustion chambers.... but thats neither here nor there.
the point is, recirculating your BOV is the best and most efficient design. And no, it would have no effect if you hook up your recirculated hose BEFORE the MAF and add that air to pre-metered air. It is effectively boosting the intake charge before it even reaches the compressor, which is helpful to have the air measured so as not to totally confuse your ecu.
1) If you read anything I've said, that's what I was talking about. You've just re-typed what I have stated several times in this thread. If you are curious, I can even copy/paste these in a quote for you to understand. Some people have placed the MAF on the charge piping after the BOV in order to have the car run properly in-between shifts when dumping to atmosphere. If you circulate the blow-by gasses (PCV system) into the intake (as it should be rather than slapping a filter onto the PCV) you will either foul the MAF or have to clean it quite frequently.
2) You obviously have no experience with boosted tC's. Several piggyback solutions allow the purchase of a MAP sensor to aid in tuning, and almost all that use a full standalone use a MAP sensor as well. In fact, you can even delete the MAF and setup the car to run purely on the MAP sensor (this would disable the ability to measure intake air temperatures though, so it is useful to have it around just for that purpose). Having the MAF voltage output based on what pressure is seen after the throttlebody is the most ideal way to tune the vehicle when running a piggyback.
Also, let's clarify on some mistakes you have made. If you circulate the BOV/BPV/DV to right before the MAF (meaning that the air will be re-measured before reaching the turbo) the ECU will measure things improperly. If you recirculate, it must go post-MAF.
Just look at any Audi, Porsche, VW, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Scion, Lexus, Infiniti, Subaru, etc etc etc that recirculates the BOV/BPV/DV and uses a MAF-based system. You'll see what I'm pointing out is accurate.
FYI, the STOCK intake system dumps the PCV into the intake tract and there is no danger of fouling or having to clean the MAF because it is so much futher downflow....but i'm sure thats what you MEANT to say. :D
dude, i'm knock going to judge, but all i know, is that just because you work for a company or on a racing team, doesn't mean you know everything...... and even if u do, you're not great at communicating it via posts. Your right, i have been doing a lot of clarifying of your posts, in addition to correcting and supplementing. You're not an auto-God..... get used to it.
#65
Originally Posted by tekstyle
Originally Posted by SePaTc
Originally Posted by engifineer
Wow... you cant take enough time to read either... or you would have read that part of my reply. As usual sepa, you hear what you want to, close out the rest so you can pretend you know all the answers. And perfect rewording there to describe yourself... shut those ears when you dont understand the concepts or the arguments and keep spouting off the same answers. Bury your foot a bit deeper into your mouth ??
Another sore reminder of why so many avoid the forums more and more... too many kids who would argue with a tree.. even if the tree werent really arguing back
Another sore reminder of why so many avoid the forums more and more... too many kids who would argue with a tree.. even if the tree werent really arguing back
stop projecting hypocrite. i never said using a lighter flywheel won't improve throttle response and acceleration. you just can't get over that fact to see the real issue at hand can you???
ok, going back to my b18c1 OBD2a to OBD2b wiring matching madness.
a lighter flywheel has nothing to do with shortening the time between the point when you touch the pedal, and the point where the rpms start to climb. Why? Because there is no mechanical link between the pedal and the flywheel. The response time between driver input and throttle response is the same no matter what flywheel u use.
It just FEELS better with a lighter flywheel because A) it takes less energy to rotate the fly (which means the same input will give you greater response) and B) once you've escaped the inertia of idling, the rpms climb much quicker and feel more crip than before.
Replacing a MECHANICAL part will NEVER have any effect on an electrical system. :D
#66
To clarify tekstyle..
We will say for the sake of of the conversation that there is a noticeable lag in the throttle caused by an electrical lag. I wont get into arguing that one way or another. I have already posted why a buffer needs to be there and there are varying opinions on how large that delay really is. So we will skip opinions on that part.
So if it is there, your mind is both percieving that as well as the slowness of revs to increase introduced by a heavy flywheel. Take one of those away, and much of what you perceive is gone, which is exactly what those running lightweight flywheels have said they have experienced. If whatever remaining delay is negligible at that point, then you are much happier, the car responds better and the sun is shining
We will say for the sake of of the conversation that there is a noticeable lag in the throttle caused by an electrical lag. I wont get into arguing that one way or another. I have already posted why a buffer needs to be there and there are varying opinions on how large that delay really is. So we will skip opinions on that part.
So if it is there, your mind is both percieving that as well as the slowness of revs to increase introduced by a heavy flywheel. Take one of those away, and much of what you perceive is gone, which is exactly what those running lightweight flywheels have said they have experienced. If whatever remaining delay is negligible at that point, then you are much happier, the car responds better and the sun is shining
#67
Originally Posted by SePaTc
Originally Posted by Obike
I'm with nebster, you are a troll. Let's break it down to you.
1) If you read anything I've said, that's what I was talking about. You've just re-typed what I have stated several times in this thread. If you are curious, I can even copy/paste these in a quote for you to understand. Some people have placed the MAF on the charge piping after the BOV in order to have the car run properly in-between shifts when dumping to atmosphere. If you circulate the blow-by gasses (PCV system) into the intake (as it should be rather than slapping a filter onto the PCV) you will either foul the MAF or have to clean it quite frequently.
2) You obviously have no experience with boosted tC's. Several piggyback solutions allow the purchase of a MAP sensor to aid in tuning, and almost all that use a full standalone use a MAP sensor as well. In fact, you can even delete the MAF and setup the car to run purely on the MAP sensor (this would disable the ability to measure intake air temperatures though, so it is useful to have it around just for that purpose). Having the MAF voltage output based on what pressure is seen after the throttlebody is the most ideal way to tune the vehicle when running a piggyback.
Also, let's clarify on some mistakes you have made. If you circulate the BOV/BPV/DV to right before the MAF (meaning that the air will be re-measured before reaching the turbo) the ECU will measure things improperly. If you recirculate, it must go post-MAF.
Just look at any Audi, Porsche, VW, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Scion, Lexus, Infiniti, Subaru, etc etc etc that recirculates the BOV/BPV/DV and uses a MAF-based system. You'll see what I'm pointing out is accurate.
1) If you read anything I've said, that's what I was talking about. You've just re-typed what I have stated several times in this thread. If you are curious, I can even copy/paste these in a quote for you to understand. Some people have placed the MAF on the charge piping after the BOV in order to have the car run properly in-between shifts when dumping to atmosphere. If you circulate the blow-by gasses (PCV system) into the intake (as it should be rather than slapping a filter onto the PCV) you will either foul the MAF or have to clean it quite frequently.
2) You obviously have no experience with boosted tC's. Several piggyback solutions allow the purchase of a MAP sensor to aid in tuning, and almost all that use a full standalone use a MAP sensor as well. In fact, you can even delete the MAF and setup the car to run purely on the MAP sensor (this would disable the ability to measure intake air temperatures though, so it is useful to have it around just for that purpose). Having the MAF voltage output based on what pressure is seen after the throttlebody is the most ideal way to tune the vehicle when running a piggyback.
Also, let's clarify on some mistakes you have made. If you circulate the BOV/BPV/DV to right before the MAF (meaning that the air will be re-measured before reaching the turbo) the ECU will measure things improperly. If you recirculate, it must go post-MAF.
Just look at any Audi, Porsche, VW, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Scion, Lexus, Infiniti, Subaru, etc etc etc that recirculates the BOV/BPV/DV and uses a MAF-based system. You'll see what I'm pointing out is accurate.
FYI, the STOCK intake system dumps the PCV into the intake tract and there is no danger of fouling or having to clean the MAF because it is so much futher downflow....but i'm sure thats what you MEANT to say. :D
dude, i'm knock going to judge, but all i know, is that just because you work for a company or on a racing team, doesn't mean you know everything...... and even if u do, you're not great at communicating it via posts. Your right, i have been doing a lot of clarifying of your posts, in addition to correcting and supplementing. You're not an auto-God..... get used to it.
Some people have placed the MAF on the charge piping after the BOV in order to have the car run properly in-between shifts when dumping to atmosphere. If you circulate the blow-by gasses (PCV system) into the intake (as it should be rather than slapping a filter onto the PCV) you will either foul the MAF or have to clean it quite frequently.
It's also in the same paragraph, and in English I'm pretty sure that each paragraph pertains to the same idea. Which in this case is the fact that recirculating the PCV before the MAF is what fouls it out. Before you beat me to it, here's a quote from Wikipedia on paragraphs.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A paragraph (from the Greek paragraphos, "to write beside" or "written beside") is a self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea.
Originally Posted by Obike
Originally Posted by aen
wait. if we are recirculating the BOV, are we supposed to do it before or after the MAF sensor?
like, where am i drilling the damn hole on the stupid intake
like, where am i drilling the damn hole on the stupid intake
It should be as follows: Filter ->MAF->PCV hookup->BOV/BPV/DV recirc->compressor
#69
Originally Posted by aen
shall we agree that sepatc is a tard?
oh ____ this isn't jeopardy
#71
Originally Posted by nebster
Originally Posted by aen
shall we agree that sepatc is a tard?
oh poop this isn't jeopardy
#72
funny how only the people i've pwnd think i'm a "tard" :D well, i guess i'm the only tard that carried a 3.5 gpa through one of the top prep high schools in the country, and all the way through a four year college bachelors degree..... and probably the only tard who's the assistant manager of his company. haters.... :D
#74
Originally Posted by nebster
try carrying a 3.85 through your bachelors program for mechanical engineering then talk to me.
GET A LIFE KID. YOUR A WHINY SNOT NOSED LITTLE [FEMALE DOG]. I PWND YOU ONCE (ACTUALLY A FEW TIMES) AND EVERY SINCE...... ALL U DO IS FOLLOW ME AROUND IN EVERY THREAD. DO U KNOW HOW SAD THAT MAKES U LOOK???
YOU ARE SO THE STEREOTYPICAL EGO-MANIAC ENGINEERING MAJOR (SEE: ENGIFINEER) WHO THINKS BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS PAID FOR YOU TO GO TO SOME DINKY LITTLE STAR WARS SCHOOL, THAT YOU'RE UP ON A HIGHER LEVEL ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE. YOU MUST HAVE SO MANY ISSUES......
REPORTED TO ADMIN.
#75
Originally Posted by SePaTc
dude, WHO THE F CARES???? I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU, AND I CERTAINLY WASN'T COMPARING MYSELF TO YOU. WHY DO U FEEL THE NEED TO CONSTANTLY COMPARE YOURSELF TO ME????? MAJOR SELF ESTEEM PROBLEM IMO. (AND I WAS A PSYCH DOUBLE MAJOR, SO I SHOULD KNOW.... Smile
GET A LIFE KID. YOUR A WHINY SNOT NOSED LITTLE [FEMALE DOG]. I PWND YOU ONCE (ACTUALLY A FEW TIMES) AND EVERY SINCE...... ALL U DO IS FOLLOW ME AROUND IN EVERY THREAD. DO U KNOW HOW SAD THAT MAKES U LOOK???
YOU ARE SO THE STEREOTYPICAL EGO-MANIAC ENGINEERING MAJOR (SEE: ENGIFINEER) WHO THINKS BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS PAID FOR YOU TO GO TO SOME DINKY LITTLE STAR WARS SCHOOL, THAT YOU'RE UP ON A HIGHER LEVEL ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE. YOU MUST HAVE SO MANY ISSUES......
REPORTED TO ADMIN.
GET A LIFE KID. YOUR A WHINY SNOT NOSED LITTLE [FEMALE DOG]. I PWND YOU ONCE (ACTUALLY A FEW TIMES) AND EVERY SINCE...... ALL U DO IS FOLLOW ME AROUND IN EVERY THREAD. DO U KNOW HOW SAD THAT MAKES U LOOK???
YOU ARE SO THE STEREOTYPICAL EGO-MANIAC ENGINEERING MAJOR (SEE: ENGIFINEER) WHO THINKS BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS PAID FOR YOU TO GO TO SOME DINKY LITTLE STAR WARS SCHOOL, THAT YOU'RE UP ON A HIGHER LEVEL ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE. YOU MUST HAVE SO MANY ISSUES......
REPORTED TO ADMIN.
Originally Posted by SePaTc
funny how only the people i've pwnd think i'm a "tard" :D well, i guess i'm the only tard that carried a 3.5 gpa through one of the top prep high schools in the country, and all the way through a four year college bachelors degree..... and probably the only tard who's the assistant manager of his company. haters.... :D
#76
Originally Posted by aen
shall we agree that sepatc is a tard?
I actually reported about 8 of your "troll" and other flaming posts from the last few days.......
funny, if I'm "so bad".....why am i still here?? hmmmm??? maybe its because the only people who don't like me are the ones with fragile ego's whom i corrected or showed up in a thread.
get a life dude..... or if u want to get banned, just keep on doing what you've been.
#77
dude do you read have the stuff you post? you flame people way more than anyone does and attack people if they disagree with anything you say. you start wars with people on EVERY THREAD YOU POST
looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll thats pretty much exactly what you are.
looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll thats pretty much exactly what you are.
#78
rofl. u done yet??? good. now don't post anything else in this thread unless its relevant to throttle response issues in the tc. thanks.
#79
Originally Posted by SePaTc
funny how only the people i've pwnd think i'm a "tard" :D well, i guess i'm the only tard that carried a 3.5 gpa through one of the top prep high schools in the country, and all the way through a four year college bachelors degree..... and probably the only tard who's the assistant manager of his company. haters.... :D
I have yet to see you "pwm" anyone, ever, on any forum you take time to troll on. If you want people to think you are smart (which seems to REALLY be important to you), why not act like an adult and stop with the childish nonsense and ego tripping?
#80
reported no one to admin, or it was ignored nebster. He supposedly has reported me before, yet no warnings on it EVER . The mods know all about him I am sure... dont worry about that