Turbo w/o piggy or standalone roll call!
#21
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its not that it will blow FOR SURE. its just more likely for some novice mechanic who doesnt know anything about afrs, timing, egts, etc...
the stock ecu wont work well at all with high horsepower, but i can say, when i ran the zpi stage 0 with 440's and NO reflash or management, the ecu took it well. i just used 95 octane and was at 11.4 arf at wot @5 psi.
awesome for daily driving and smokinn rice burners, but not too great for racing vettes
the stock ecu wont work well at all with high horsepower, but i can say, when i ran the zpi stage 0 with 440's and NO reflash or management, the ecu took it well. i just used 95 octane and was at 11.4 arf at wot @5 psi.
awesome for daily driving and smokinn rice burners, but not too great for racing vettes
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#22
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I had my 06 tC running 7psi for about 5-6 months ,until I got it tuned, with a turbonetics kit that has 440cc RC injectors, and I was running a 2.5" S-Pipe to the stock mid-pipe, no axle back. I didn't boost it too much, but my wideband was reading low 11 AFR's in boost, I wouldn't run too long untuned, but it's def. doable for a little while, I was just surprised the stock computer read and compensated for boost. 93octane
#23
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its not that it will blow FOR SURE. its just more likely for some novice mechanic who doesnt know anything about afrs, timing, egts, etc...
the stock ecu wont work well at all with high horsepower, but i can say, when i ran the zpi stage 0 with 440's and NO reflash or management, the ecu took it well. i just used 95 octane and was at 11.4 arf at wot @5 psi.
awesome for daily driving and smokinn rice burners, but not too great for racing vettes![Smile](https://www.scionlife.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
the stock ecu wont work well at all with high horsepower, but i can say, when i ran the zpi stage 0 with 440's and NO reflash or management, the ecu took it well. i just used 95 octane and was at 11.4 arf at wot @5 psi.
awesome for daily driving and smokinn rice burners, but not too great for racing vettes
![Smile](https://www.scionlife.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#24
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I had my 06 tC running 7psi for about 5-6 months ,until I got it tuned, with a turbonetics kit that has 440cc RC injectors, and I was running a 2.5" S-Pipe to the stock mid-pipe, no axle back. I didn't boost it too much, but my wideband was reading low 11 AFR's in boost, I wouldn't run too long untuned, but it's def. doable for a little while, I was just surprised the stock computer read and compensated for boost. 93octane
I actually consider my car to be "tuned" even wthout a traditional piggyhack. With accurate MAF data the ECU handles everything sub-boost as well as it did when stock. The Split Second Enricher handles closed loop (part throttle) boost like the FIC does and the 440cc inj's handle open loop boost by lowering the AFR from ~12.5:1 to ~11.5:1 and adding enough fueling capacity. The use of an intercooler, colder thermostat & plugs, TB coolant bypass and 93 octane gas handle any slight ign timing retard that might be otherwise required with only 5-7 psi boost.
IMO this is a very viable long term "tune" solution for up to 100 bhp over stock. So far it's been working great for 2 years and 20k miles.
#25
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the only thing that worries me is the timing at wot with no emu. but i guess thats why your only sapposed to push 6 psi on 440's and 4psi on stockies.
oh and as far as reliability goes, its great. i never had any problems, besides the occasional coupler blow off on the J pipe on the zpi kit. i ran it for like a year, put like 25K miles on it! lmao, still 185 compression on all four, like 2% tolerance of each other. i guess the main idea here is to BE RESPONSIBLE with what you can push with no management
oh and as far as reliability goes, its great. i never had any problems, besides the occasional coupler blow off on the J pipe on the zpi kit. i ran it for like a year, put like 25K miles on it! lmao, still 185 compression on all four, like 2% tolerance of each other. i guess the main idea here is to BE RESPONSIBLE with what you can push with no management
#26
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My only question is, why??? Not trying to bash anyone!! But why run a setup on stock ecu??? Piggy backs are cheap now a days! U can pick them up on here for under 500 all day long, and you only benefit from it! More power, safer tune, and more fun!!! So like I said I'm not bashing I'm just confused as to why you would want to do that?
#27
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Thanks for sharing your experience. What made you decide to get "tuned" and what does the "tuning"? FIC, EMU, etc.?
I actually consider my car to be "tuned" even wthout a traditional piggyhack. With accurate MAF data the ECU handles everything sub-boost as well as it did when stock. The Split Second Enricher handles closed loop (part throttle) boost like the FIC does and the 440cc inj's handle open loop boost by lowering the AFR from ~12.5:1 to ~11.5:1 and adding enough fueling capacity. The use of an intercooler, colder thermostat & plugs, TB coolant bypass and 93 octane gas handle any slight ign timing retard that might be otherwise required with only 5-7 psi boost.
IMO this is a very viable long term "tune" solution for up to 100 bhp over stock. So far it's been working great for 2 years and 20k miles.
I actually consider my car to be "tuned" even wthout a traditional piggyhack. With accurate MAF data the ECU handles everything sub-boost as well as it did when stock. The Split Second Enricher handles closed loop (part throttle) boost like the FIC does and the 440cc inj's handle open loop boost by lowering the AFR from ~12.5:1 to ~11.5:1 and adding enough fueling capacity. The use of an intercooler, colder thermostat & plugs, TB coolant bypass and 93 octane gas handle any slight ign timing retard that might be otherwise required with only 5-7 psi boost.
IMO this is a very viable long term "tune" solution for up to 100 bhp over stock. So far it's been working great for 2 years and 20k miles.
#28
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My only question is, why??? Not trying to bash anyone!! But why run a setup on stock ecu??? Piggy backs are cheap now a days! U can pick them up on here for under 500 all day long, and you only benefit from it! More power, safer tune, and more fun!!! So like I said I'm not bashing I'm just confused as to why you would want to do that?
In the end switching from 2.75" to a 3" intake/MAS pipe with stock ECU produced perfect starts, idle and driveability. My XB uses a ~3" MAS tube unlike the 2.5" MAS tube on the TC.
Other reasons to do this are listed below:
1) Saves the cost of a piggy, harness and tune (FIC+harness cost me $800, X1 cost $1850, P-Tuning quoted $550 for a tune)
2) The ECU will self-tune fuel trims up to +/-20% which covers 440cc
3) The only PnP harness available for the 08-11 XB is for the FIC
4) Excellent match for A/T cars as it doesn't affect shifting and produces an ideal power level that the stock A/T can handle with just a cooler(<250hwp).
I got my car tuned because I've heard horror stories of detonation because the 2AZ runs a lot of timing in the top of the powerband. I also experienced bucking issues when letting off of the gas/deceleration and a crappy idle. and the car ran like poop with the A/C on. I have a Greddy E-Manage Ultimate that I bought from a guy I know and had it tuned at PTuning and it runs so much smoother now, the powerband also feels stronger, and I have no idle issues or bucking issues, or issues running A/C or Cruise Control. It's worth the extra money for a piggyback just for the driveability factor, and the peace of mind if you ask me
In no way am I trying to say that this is the best boost setup available. Just that it can work very well within it's somewhat limited parameters. It may be ideal for A/T builds not planning to spend several thousand dollars to have their A/T built. M/T cars have a lot more lee-way when it comes to tuning since ECU load error doesn't affect shifting. Even when the ECU load is off you can simply adjust the fuel and timing to compensate.
Last edited by ScionFred; 08-02-2011 at 06:35 PM.
#29
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I am just woundering if I'm being paronoid or not buy does the stock engine sound like it has a little ticking sound to it...... I rember it from before I turbed my tc now and from when I had my turbo and when I had an 07 tc but I am not shrue if I remember right or my engine but I think I'm just being paranoid
#30
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I am just woundering if I'm being paronoid or not buy does the stock engine sound like it has a little ticking sound to it...... I rember it from before I turbed my tc now and from when I had my turbo and when I had an 07 tc but I am not shrue if I remember right or my engine but I think I'm just being paranoid
#31
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I am just woundering if I'm being paronoid or not buy does the stock engine sound like it has a little ticking sound to it...... I rember it from before I turbed my tc now and from when I had my turbo and when I had an 07 tc but I am not shrue if I remember right or my engine but I think I'm just being paranoid
#32
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I have ticking from the injectors and ticking from the valvetrain but I've never noticed the kind of light spark knock ticking that I hear from so many other cars like my last one. My 99 Dakota had audible spark knock under load for all of the 8 years and 70k miles I owned it. IMO my 08 XB has a better knock sensor and ECU than the old Dakota which is why I never hear it. The knock sensor hears it first and the ECU corrects the timing before it becomes audible to the driver.
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