DeAnzaJig

its not that it will blow FOR SURE. its just more likely for some novice mechanic who doesnt know anything about afrs, timing, egts, etc...

the stock ecu wont work well at all with high horsepower, but i can say, when i ran the zpi stage 0 with 440's and NO reflash or management, the ecu took it well. i just used 95 octane and was at 11.4 arf at wot @5 psi.

awesome for daily driving and smokinn rice burners, but not too great for racing vettes

etoomey3

I had my 06 tC running 7psi for about 5-6 months ,until I got it tuned, with a turbonetics kit that has 440cc RC injectors, and I was running a 2.5" S-Pipe to the stock mid-pipe, no axle back. I didn't boost it too much, but my wideband was reading low 11 AFR's in boost, I wouldn't run too long untuned, but it's def. doable for a little while, I was just surprised the stock computer read and compensated for boost. 93octane

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for adding your experience and perspective. As you pointed out this kind of setup is very likely to appeal to the novice on a low budget who will often cut corners on the build or push it too far and blow their ish up. My point here is to establish that this is actually a legitimate low HP turbo build option if done correctly and kept within it's limits.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for sharing your experience. What made you decide to get "tuned" and what does the "tuning"? FIC, EMU, etc.?

I actually consider my car to be "tuned" even wthout a traditional piggyhack. With accurate MAF data the ECU handles everything sub-boost as well as it did when stock. The Split Second Enricher handles closed loop (part throttle) boost like the FIC does and the 440cc inj's handle open loop boost by lowering the AFR from ~12.5:1 to ~11.5:1 and adding enough fueling capacity. The use of an intercooler, colder thermostat & plugs, TB coolant bypass and 93 octane gas handle any slight ign timing retard that might be otherwise required with only 5-7 psi boost.

IMO this is a very viable long term "tune" solution for up to 100 bhp over stock. So far it's been working great for 2 years and 20k miles.

DeAnzaJig

the only thing that worries me is the timing at wot with no emu. but i guess thats why your only sapposed to push 6 psi on 440's and 4psi on stockies.

oh and as far as reliability goes, its great. i never had any problems, besides the occasional coupler blow off on the J pipe on the zpi kit. i ran it for like a year, put like 25K miles on it! lmao, still 185 compression on all four, like 2% tolerance of each other. i guess the main idea here is to BE RESPONSIBLE with what you can push with no management

fullFXtc

iTrader: (1)

My only question is, why??? Not trying to bash anyone!! But why run a setup on stock ecu??? Piggy backs are cheap now a days! U can pick them up on here for under 500 all day long, and you only benefit from it! More power, safer tune, and more fun!!! So like I said I'm not bashing I'm just confused as to why you would want to do that?

etoomey3

I got my car tuned because I've heard horror stories of detonation because the 2AZ runs a lot of timing in the top of the powerband. I also experienced bucking issues when letting off of the gas/deceleration and a crappy idle. and the car ran like poop with the A/C on. I have a Greddy E-Manage Ultimate that I bought from a guy I know and had it tuned at PTuning and it runs so much smoother now, the powerband also feels stronger, and I have no idle issues or bucking issues, or issues running A/C or Cruise Control. It's worth the extra money for a piggyback just for the driveability factor, and the peace of mind if you ask me

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I think the change from 87 to 93 octane and the oem knock sensor is enough for up to 6psi. Colder plugs, thermostat, IC, etc. also help prevent detonation. I agree about being responsible with this or any boost setup. Every setup has it's limits and you really need to respect them.





You're probably right for the majority of people. In my case, for reasons still not 100% known, the FIC caused crk and cam sensor signal issues that I never got 100% fixed. I worked on this with Boomslang and AEM for months and even used an oscilloscope and potentiometers as variable resistors trying to find the right R value for the FIC inputs. Nothing between 1k to 10k worked 100%. I also had the usual starting issues as well as the FIC misfires. I also tried the APR-X1 but it removed my rev-limiter completely and caused delayed shifting.

In the end switching from 2.75" to a 3" intake/MAS pipe with stock ECU produced perfect starts, idle and driveability. My XB uses a ~3" MAS tube unlike the 2.5" MAS tube on the TC.

Other reasons to do this are listed below:

1) Saves the cost of a piggy, harness and tune (FIC+harness cost me $800, X1 cost $1850, P-Tuning quoted $550 for a tune)
2) The ECU will self-tune fuel trims up to +/-20% which covers 440cc
3) The only PnP harness available for the 08-11 XB is for the FIC
4) Excellent match for A/T cars as it doesn't affect shifting and produces an ideal power level that the stock A/T can handle with just a cooler(<250hwp).


Fair enough. Luckily for me I have zero issues with this setup on my car. It runs perfectly with a/c on/off, cruise, etc. As I may have mentioned already, it's imperative that the MAS reads as close to oem as possible for this to work. Descendant's use of the oem airbox and MAS pipe would be ideal. A larger or smaller MAS pipe changes ECU load calculations which in turn affects fuel delivery, ign timing and A/T shifting.

In no way am I trying to say that this is the best boost setup available. Just that it can work very well within it's somewhat limited parameters. It may be ideal for A/T builds not planning to spend several thousand dollars to have their A/T built. M/T cars have a lot more lee-way when it comes to tuning since ECU load error doesn't affect shifting. Even when the ECU load is off you can simply adjust the fuel and timing to compensate.

tcrs20

I am just woundering if I'm being paronoid or not buy does the stock engine sound like it has a little ticking sound to it...... I rember it from before I turbed my tc now and from when I had my turbo and when I had an 07 tc but I am not shrue if I remember right or my engine but I think I'm just being paranoid

FromTheOld

It's normal. I can't tell for sure what you're hearing, but here's a fun fact: Most OEM/stock engines run hot as hell, almost on the verge of knocking. This allows the best power/fuel economy there can be (sort of).

etoomey3

How many miles are on your car? I had a "ticking" noise in my tC ar around 70K, it ended up being the water pump. I'd check that just to be sure, the last thing you want when boosting is to overheat lol.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I have ticking from the injectors and ticking from the valvetrain but I've never noticed the kind of light spark knock ticking that I hear from so many other cars like my last one. My 99 Dakota had audible spark knock under load for all of the 8 years and 70k miles I owned it. IMO my 08 XB has a better knock sensor and ECU than the old Dakota which is why I never hear it. The knock sensor hears it first and the ECU corrects the timing before it becomes audible to the driver.

tcrs20

haha yeah im at like 67 68k and i can hear somthing eles ticking but its not the engine

DeAnzaJig

its a ignition relay. it used to happen to me all the time. its usually just when the battery is low, or was jump started recently.