Joe_Dezod

Amen to product awareness. Thanks for the compliment Travis.

I sense we're still getting along. Fancy that? haha...

In defense to that, I didn't see too much bashing at all, I just wanted to jump in with my 2 cents before things possibly escalated.

Guru

Perhaps a video of the car may work best to show folks just how easy to drive it is and how responsive it is. Hmm, I'll work o that tomorrow.

Joe_Dezod

Sweet. I can attest to larger turbos still being fun to drive. You can alter tuning to help with lag as well so it's not always that bad. I know our BB E housing makes full boost at about 32-3300. Look forward to seeing some new videos online.

Guru

Thank you for the kind words Joe! Now we are making some decent boost at lower RPM's. We have some great boost as low as 3000 RPM but 3750 we are at 10 PSI in 4th gear. I just did some runs tonite with mildmodtc to check the boost settings. Everything rock solid. We hope to publish the new results with the built motor soon. The sleeving is almost done and now that the valvetrain is available, we hope to get the head back together soon. One last thing I thought about tonite is that I haven't played with cam advance on the car yet. I may be able to get it to spool a bit faster by playing with the settings in the Hydra. I'll try to do that soon.

Joe_Dezod

Exactly. I hope I motivated you with the Cam advance haha...

Altering fuel, igntion, and cam timing will affect the turbo spool and driveability. I know you know this. I wanted to bring this out there so others do not thing it's soley on the turbo specs.

Are you guys only using a wastegate to regulate boost? If you're using a boost controller (I know it's electronic ), are you using an actuator or a steppnig motor to regulate?

I had to make some corrections to my turbo maps on my AVCRII to make the Innovative turbo run a nice flat boost curve. I noticed that if you raise the boost with an actuator on a larger turbo on the tC, it tends to creep ever so slightly. I know it has some to do with manfiold design, wastegate placement, and downpipe, but the tune did fix it.

I'm just curious to see what your experiences are on a turbo that large. Looks like you have a good size diapgram on the wategate so that's a plus. TiAL for the win.

etsnet

iTrader: (2)

No hostile here. It just seems that it's the same argument or "discussion" in every turbo thread. I thought he was saying that a built motor and the kit would be a good DD. Wouldn't a built motor have it spooling faster? Either way I hope to see all the companies represent at the shootout, new and old.




That's true but sometimes the customers not sure what they want and don't do the research and it takes videos, numbers, time slips, and bragging to make them go with one company over another.

Joe_Dezod

Which is why it's nice to get the truth out in the beginning to make sure things aren't skewed in any way.

It's all about research.

318_tC

you guys make me want my unicorn back so bad!!!

turbo27

rhythmnsmoke, its like your reading my mind lol. Yea you nailed my point right on the dot. If I were to use a GT40 I would do everything to eliminate the lag, such as building the engine, doing some heavy porting of the manifolds, turbos, etc. to kill boost creep, rods, studs and all those goodies. Now as a daily driver, I dont think that would be such a good idea as we all know, the more you mod the more likely your gunna have probs. So Id rather run a faster spooling turbo making 300+whp then a built motor with a bigger turbo that would have more down time. Then dealing with always using a really high octane gas to keep that big turbo running smoothly and having that stress on the engine. That GT40 is pumping out around 950 CFM while the 16G is pumping out around 505 CFM. So 10lbs at 950CFMs is making the same hp as 14lbs at 505CF. Same amount of hp but the bigger turbo is putting more stress on the engine. Advantage would be that the GT40 would be more torquey up top. Im not trying to bash you or anything at all Im just saying I dont think its reasonable to put that much stress on a stock motor. Thats why Im so interested in seeing what your kit would do with a 16g as it would be less stressful, more reasonable for most of the people on here who use their tC as a DD, and would be a true bolt on kit. For example instead of attracting a few percentage of hte people who are willing to use their tC as race car you could attract the many people interested in just being boosted and making power relaibly.

As for that race, since Im really close Guru in the summer we can probably meet up and do a comparison of the GT40 and 16G if I get my set up installed. I really want to see how it will hold up. I think with the 16G's wider power band Id take you on the start but youll start walking on me with the GT40s upper powerband. I just want to see if the 16Gs wideband is enought to keep me away from you until you hit full boost.

mildmodtc

Wow a lot of attention on this thread. Grabs popcorn.

Guru

Actually you are incorrect Turbo27. The bigger turbo is putting less stress on the engine and less stress on the turbo and IC since everything would be running much cooler and obviously with less pressure. Comparing the max cfm numbers like that and assuming you will make the same power by simple mathematics is also incorrect as the compressor maps are not a straight line at all. There are certain sweet spots on each turbo as well as temperature and knock threshholds to consider. As I said, if you want a 16G kit go right ahead but as I said, I'll just get some video tonite of the car so you can see how this car performs. We considered making a 16G kit and scrapped the idea. It was ill suited for a car of this much displacement and would not have given the customer much room for growth in terms of flow capacity but as I said each customer is different. If it is the right turbo for you go right ahead.

Joe yes with a turbo of this size a Tial 44mm wastegate was necessary. Most kits use a Tial 38mm wastegate but then again most kits are not using a turbo as larger as this one. The car has an AVCR which is the boost controller of choice for us due to it's ability to change duty cycle by gear and also by RPM.

rhythmnsmoke

Good, cause people want to see more than just my ugly mug plastered up on here all the time..

rhythmnsmoke

It's still accurate in what he said though. As you posted a GT40 dyno with 10lbs and 340whp. A 16G would need about 12lbs to match that. At 14lbs would be a little over the 340 mark. He was only just saying that to match, he would have to turn up the boost on it a little more, to make it comparable in whp wise.

Of course after we hit the 380-400whp range, we would have to swap the 16G out for something bigger, where you wouldn't have to with your GT40 as you can push in the 500whp range. But again, we are getting back to built motors when we hit those #'s.

Guru

Do you speak from experience? Is it safe on 93 octane? What are EGT's at that level? All these things need to be considered and actually done and recorded to figure out if what he said is even close to being correct. You can make numbers do anything on paper but it is the actual results and dyno sheets that matter in the long run.

rhythmnsmoke

I've been running the 16G on 93 octane for over a year, yeah I speak from experience. EGT's aren't any hotter than you would see on any of the other turbo kits out there. I notice that when I go WOT (I assume from the faster flow of the gases), that the EGT's go down. The results of a 16G @ 14 lbs of boost is a 12.1 @ 114mph 1/4mile. I don't care so much about dyno #'s. There are mutiple buying segments within the Scion community. Some buy because they see a big dyno # and equate it to being fast. Others want to see what the performance is and don't care about dyno #'s. I'm one of the guys that care more about what it's performance is. Run that 10lbs on that GT40 down the 1320 and show us how it performs on the strip so we can get a feel of how comparable it is, as well as the daily drive ride vid that you said you are working on. Still not 100% unless you sit it next to another boosted tC, but we still will get SOME sort of idea than just seeing it on paper and pictures.

Guru

So what are your EGT's if you don't mind my asking? What about air temps post intercooler? How much ignition advance? Is the 14 lbs on race gas? Actually EGT's go up at WOT not sure why they are going down on your car. I mounted my EGT probe within 2 inches of the head on runner 1 if looking at it from the front.

rhythmnsmoke

I can get a vid of it if you want? Car is on 9lbs, daily driven, stock motor. I can get you a vid of just normal non-boost driving, and then me reeming on it. It doesn't see above 7 on the Defi gauge.

turbo27

Dyno from a Scion tC running a 16G making 376 whp. Guru, I think you might be under-estimating the 16G. This Mitsubishi turbo is a proven turbo thats been used for years making serious power reliably. Im becoming more interested in the bigger turbo but then again Im just worried about the reliability. For now it might be doing fine but what about in a year of running the same boost?

rhythmnsmoke

^^I wouldn't see a problem in a year laters time with running the same boost. No matter if it's at 10lbs or 20lbs, if you constantly beat on it, you will break something. But Daily driving it, with an occassional race, shouldn't make it break anytime soon.

Guru

Do you have any more details on that 16G? The GT37/40 makes 500+ WHP easily on race gas as well.