brett561tc

to the original poster. i guess it all comes down to personal preference. i myself would opt to go for 100% methanol. others would go for a 50/50 mix. just keep in mind that i am not a vendor on this site trying to sell a water/meth injection kit.

Ptuning_tuner

Not sure which vendor on here is trying to sell pre-mixed 50/50 water/methanol? Anyhow, let's just all agree, experiment with different mixtures and go with what works for you.

brett561tc

always good advice to see what works best for you. just remember that if you are mixing it yourself and shooting for a 50/50 mixture, that you should be mixing by mass, not volume. methanol is about 74% the weight of water, so if you thought you were running 50/50 and you measured by volume, you're actually running around 37% methanol to water.

if you don't want to take full advantage of the methanol, and just want to turn up the boost some without knocking. then you should be gold with a water/meth mix. but if you wanna get every bit of power you can from the kit. then run straight meth, turn up the boost, and have your tunner advance timing accordingly. also another benefit to running straight meth is that you can use that as a supplemental fuel source for your car at WOT, allowing you to run smaller injectors.

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

hmm i didnt know 50/50 mix is by mass.. im gonna try different mixtures as soon as i get my WMI

brett561tc

by the way....



HAPPY ST. PATTY'S DAY EVERYONE


and if you see a leprechaun. make sure to let this man know...

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

^^ for shoo!!! lmao!

t_urbo_C_harged

lol I know this, I have been on this forum for like 3 years, I know about you and your tC build. I also read through both your post and ptuning and have to say that 50/50 mix sounds better to me. I am not out to make "all out" power off of the injection, I just want to run with less chance of knock, with cooler temps, and with more safety just in case the "what if" really does happen (I am refering to when ptuning was on the stock block and their wastegate line melted. If it wasn't for the water/meth, they probably wouldn't have finished that race let alone the others that followed on the stock block.)

The steam clean effect would be great as well, think about it your motor never loses its breathing capability since it is always being kept clean, therefore you are always making power close to whatever you dyno at.

Thanks for all of the info everyone, I am glad ptuning and brett stepped in and added their .02, anyone else with some expertise have something else to add.

Happy st. patty's day fo sho!

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

50/50 mix cant go wrong with that.. feel free to experiment with more aggressive mix too

blown_xa

here is my 2 cents: The internet is great for finding information, and forums are great to speculate ideas. But until an idea or theory is proven I would approach it with caution, and when I say that, I mean on a tC with pump gas.

Race teams use methanol injection with 100% methanol, but I highly doubt they are running 91 or 93 octane gas. The whole point of Water/ Meth is to benifit from the cooling properties of it, not as an alternative source of gas. Alcohol Methanol has a high eveaporation rate, it is very volitle... the purpose of injecting it into your intake/ charge stream is to harness the evaporation rate as a refrigeration effect to cool the intake charge ( Have you ver sprayed brake clean on your hand??? it is cool because the evaporation rate is so high it creates a refrigeration effect) . Methanol does not cool the combustion chamber well because is is mostly evaporated before it reaches it. Meth does burn a bit cooler than gasoline, but only a little bit and we are talking about injecting a very small percentage compared to the gasoline injected through the injectors. A race car running on just strait alcohol is great because it is injected right into the combustion chamber and the atomisation takes place right there!

That is where the water comes into play. Water is the most conductive thing on this planet, that is a known fact. It evaporates much slower than Methanol. The purpose of the water is to cool the combustion chamber itself, it does not burn. Binded with the Meth it has been proven a great combination for pump gas vehicles. It adds to the prevention of detonation.

I will post more when I get more time

Ace83

iTrader: (6)

^^ good point right there!

blown_xa

Here is a forum snow performance created, it is very informational. http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...pic.php?t=1011

The techs from snow performance will answer your questions there.

I took a few minutes to browse through the forum, and came across a couple of mention items discussed in this thread. Snow Performance mixes there Boost Juice according to volume. And a couple of people on the forum tested different mixtures and finally came to the conclusion that 50/50 yeilded the best results. Also a reputable soursce tuned a WRX with 100% strait meth on pump gas and only saw a 3% (12whp )gain until it stated to detonate, then introduced water into the mix and gains were apparent with a mixture instead of 100% meth.

I can see 100% meth yeilding good results coupled with race gas because the race gas is what is supressing the detonation, so the meth would be strictly for cooling the charge and provide strait horsepower with minimal tuning. But for pump gas application I would do what is recommended

Take time to browse that forum, and the tuning section is intriguing.

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

good info...ill have to visit that forum

blown_xa

interesting article from Snow Performance which supports my theory:




We hear various opinions on the subject on "if it is safe to run 100% methanol with Boost Cooler Systems". There will always be opinions but here are the facts related to the most common questions we get on this subject.

Q: Can I run 100% pure straight M100 methanol in my system?
A: YES

Q: Will 100% methanol damage my Boost Cooler system?
A: NO

Q: Should I run 100% methanol in my system?
A: NO

Q: Why Not?
A: SAFTEY

Q: Please explain....
A: OK

Methanol has a boiling point of 148F (65C). What happens when a liquid boils? It changes from liquid state to vapor. If there is enough vapor present it can be ignited with a spark, open flame, or spontaneously combustion if it is hot enough. Now, what is the temperature in the typical automotive engine bay? Well because of SAE specs I design all our electronics for 221F (105C). But on an average hot day the typical engine bay temps might be in the range of 150F to 185F. So see the issue?
This would be a good point to note that if methanol is burning the flame is nearly invisible.
Ok, so the autoignition temperature of 100% methanol is 851F (455C) that is well above engine bay temps so no worries right? .

Wrong.

What was the temp reading on your EGT gauge last time you looked 800F, 1000F,....1600F? (note if you see 1600 while using a Boost Cooler call our tech line as something is not right)

So in short running 100% methanol in your engine bay you risk the chance of an invisible fire while refilling your methanol tank after that last 1/4 mile pass.

Q: Ok so I will install my Tank, pump and 100% methanol in the trunk.
A: Good idea, also would be safer to vent the tank to external of the vehicle. Use a SFI rated fuel cell or tank and proper venting install to prevent any fumes from accumulating in passenger area of the vehicle.

Q: So the only reason Snow does not recommend 100% methanol is just because of safety?
A: Well safety is a good reason, but at 100% methanol you are basically running a dual fuel engine. There are many benefits to mixing water with methanol besides safety. Injected in the right quantity water increases the detonation resistance of the air fuel charge (or octane rating if you want) and has a steam effect on the power stroke of the engine cycle leading to more torque. (Same principle that Steam engines were designed around)

Our research and testing has shown that a 50/50 mix of water and methanol produces the best combination of intake cooling and detonation control.

Any more questions let me know.

Best regards,

Dan

t_urbo_C_harged

Sweet, some great info there blownxa. Thanks! :D

I would get boost juice but it is so expensive compared to what I can get washer fluid at (free for me ) Anyone else have any alternatives?

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

I searched one day trying to find different water/meth kits and i found quit a bit about methanol and those that sell either mixes or 100%meth so you can mix your own. just do a yahoo search and youll get quit a bit. if i can ever get a kit ill hollar at my tuner for some methanol

brett561tc

of course someone who sells pre-mixed boost cooler is going to say that. from what i have seen personally, my preference is to go with 100% meth.

brett561tc

you can get bottles of heet at wal-mart. i think there supposed to be almost entirely methanol.

jsg93085

MSDS FTW

Clicky (ingredients are in section XII)

coryjames

just so you know running full meth is near pointless i ran that on my bug unintercooled i would see detonation at the same point i would with out it blue wipper fluid on the other hand i could more then double my boost wit no detonation and lower egts just some food for thought

crush02342002

iTrader: (2)

99% meth= heet....not bad to mix yourself i guess but prolly expensive in the long run....maybe experiment with windshield washer fluid and mix in a little heet till you get what your looking for.